You're a man of references. Has anyone ever told you that? My wife, my wife, my wife. Just get to the point, All right? What are we talking about? What are we going to dinner? We're going to jail. All the time too. Yeah, my wife gets nothing. She's like, Nope. Can we just, can you just tell me what it is or can we just, can you give me a regular phrase to go along with that, please? 0:20 Can I put you on mute? 0:31 Hello, and welcome to another episode of Must Play. Today we're talking about the Grass League, the world's first high stakes par 3G league, which kicks off its season with the Grass Clippings open next week here in Tempe, AZ. And we're joined by Todd Dobson, who covers the league on all media platforms. Todd, thanks for joining us, brother. 0:47 Thank you for having me. We're we're about a week out and couldn't be more busy and excited about the the tournament next week. I know. Speaking of busy, I saw you got a chance to interview Dave Roberts, Dodger Skipper, you played golf with Steve Smith. 1:02 I saw just a couple names so I was curious how's it compared to getting a chance to talk with us? I mean, honestly, you guys might be more famous than them at this point. So I'm I'm more nervous to do this than play golf with Steve Smith. No, but those guys are awesome. I'm very fortunate to have played with, you know, Steve and and and I've played with Dave Roberts in the the first good, good Desert Open, which was was was an honor. 1:26 Even though I'm a Diamondbacks fan, it makes things really difficult where it's like, yeah, they're he's on the dark side, but he's such a good dude and such a good human. But but I'm excited to be on this podcast. I'll tell you that much. How would you fill out that foursome? You got Dave, you got Steve yourself. 1:42 Who's the 4th? Holy smokes. I mean, maybe I got to get a loop in someone from basketball or something, maybe Michael Jordan. You know, that would be an unbelievable dynamic to see between the three of them. 2:01 And Dave Roberts is like the ultimate captain, you know what I mean? Like when you when he talks, he's still a guy's guy. He's obviously played the bigs himself and but when he talks, you're like, I can understand why the roster has, you know, $2 billion worth of salaries and they're they're leaving, you know, they're giving the keys to this guy. 2:18 It makes a lot of sense. But that would be 1 hell of a foursome. How's Steve's game, by the way? We haven't I, I watched a little bit of the episode, but I know he has his own pod too. So I was curious, you know, because it looks like he's been improving. He's getting better, but he's got some eye, he had eye surgery or some eye issue. 2:36 He's wearing sunglasses and he was constantly talking about it. So I'm going to chalk it up to the the lights in in in the time of day. But he's definitely on the ascent. He's getting a lot better. Nice. I think I've always have something going on with my eyes during every round of golf. I pretty much. Play. Yeah, you had LASIK, right, TJ? 2:54 Every week. Every week. All right, well, we're here to talk grass league. Before we jump in, though, we wouldn't hear about today's sponsored Devero Golf. This episode of Must Play is brought to you by Devero Golf in their brand new Spring 26 release dubbed the Westward Collection. 3:10 If your golf wardrobe needs a reset, then this is the time to act. The Western Collection brings clean SW inspired knit polos and lightweight layers that are going to work on the course, at the range or even wherever you're heading after your round. And don't sleep on the accessories either. Deborah's hats and leather head covers are some of the best round. 3:27 They're the kind that instantly upgrade any bag or outfit. Also their shirts. They feel incredible without feeling sloppy. And the socks are just all day comfortable, whether you're walking 18 or just walking your dog. It's a new season. It's time for a new direction. The Westward Collection from Devro Golf over on devrogolf.com. 3:46 Use code fair wagers 20 to always get 20% off your orders. We'll see you out there. All right, Todd, if you don't mind jumping right in, can you help explain the grass league to those who aren't familiar with the concept? Kind of give us an explain like I5 and then also maybe like what's the difference between that grass clippings the company and then the grass clippings at Rolling Hills? 4:06 I mean, my first question back to me, how much time do you have? But the grass league is, you know, to explain what the grass league is, you kind of had to understand like what the problem was. And you know, one of our Co founders it's you know, it's Connor Riley, Jake Hosselton, Jimmy Hosselton and myself. 4:22 And before we started on this journey, Jimmy was playing Professional Golf. And when people think about Professional Golf, they think about Jordan Spieth and, you know, AT&T commercials and flying around on private jets. But that is like the 1% of the 1%. 4:38 And Jimmy, you know, is playing and the mini tour is flying to Guatemala to try to get on the, you know, at at that time, the Latin America Tour. And I'm just sitting there scratching my head. I'm like, dude, he shoots 65, he's finished his top ten and he's making 800 bucks and it, you know, gas getting to the tournament was 800 bucks. 4:56 What like what this, how is it sustainable at all? And these names that are coming through there, they're like illustrious golf golfers from college, from colleges and from amateur events and all this stuff that are turned pro. And you're like, it's not adding up. And then we just you sit there and you realize like there's this like bevy of golf talent just sitting on the sidelines like they don't know where to play. 5:17 There's only so many member guests you can play in or so many member member where you're given some guy ten shots and you're like, I, I, what are we doing here? Like this isn't even a sport anymore. And so we just kept thinking about it. Why isn't there like a platform beyond the PGA Tour or your, your typical USGA events or whatever you see out there? 5:38 You know, there's clearly a demand and a desire for, for golfers to want to play on a stage that's, that's level, that's, that's even that they can really feel authentic about like I actually earned something. So that was kind of at the, at the foundation of that. And the way we structured it is we we started a a par 3G tournament A2 man scramble, 2 personal scramble on a par 3 course here in in Paradise Valley and. 6:03 Mountain shadows, right? And Mountain Shadows, Yeah, in, in, in, in the thesis was, you know, if you, if you take the driver out of the hand, you put everybody in the same tee box, 2 person scramble on a par 3 course, literally you 2 or one of you and me could go beat anybody in the world. 6:21 Like honestly, the, it's a pitching wood and a putt, you know what I mean? It's like, it's not like we're trying to fight, you know, Mike Tyson or something. This is pretty, pretty straightforward. It's like, can you hit it or not? And I, I always like to say like that tapped into some kind of like psychological, you know, brain barrier it it because everyone kind of bought into that. 6:41 And then they show up and I, you know, one of my buddies is, was like an 18 handicap at the time. And his other buddy, my other buddy, you know, swung lefty half the time, half his clubs and swung righty with half his clubs. And they show up, you know, combine their like 40 handicap and they're like, we're going to win this thing. 6:57 And they're trained all year and they, and they, they get ready for the tournament. So that there was like proof of like, OK, something's going on here. People are like practicing everyday. They're, they're, they're really trying to get better. And it's like people always want to talk about grow the game. Growing the game is giving golfers something to aspire towards. 7:16 It's like, you know, I always like to say it's like, you know, I have kids. I've got three boys at home. It's like, it's one thing to just hand my, my son A9 iron, like, OK, go hit the range. And then it's another being like, Hey, here's your 9 iron. Let's go work on your night, like flighting the golf ball and let's one day talk about you're gonna play in the grass league, are gonna play in the US Open. 7:33 Are you gonna play in the Masters? And then he's hitting with purpose in doing something. So the grass league bypassing how we got there. But at grass clipping, rolling hills, we wanted to create a platform for competition to always rule the day. 7:49 And if you go back, and I always like to compare, this is like the thesis is simple. The moment you don't have golfers playing in an authentic way. And we're seeing that in today's world. Not naming names, but. Well, you can. They're almost done. 8:06 You know, I, I, I don't even comment on it. I, I don't even know enough about what they do and their plans and all that to even have a, have a, an opinion about it. But I do know, you know, back I think it was 1983 at Desert Mountain Golf Course here in north north Scottsdale was a match play event, beats the greats. 8:25 And it was the second most watched broadcast that year, second to Sunday at the Masters. And the reason for that was Gary Player was hyperventilating on the 18th tee box because he was about to make more money on that hole than he was the entire PGA Tour season. So you had elite golf with elite consequences like elite stakes, high stakes. 8:47 And then it continued to be successful until Tiger Woods came on the scene. And famously the LA Times wrote, Tiger Woods killed the skins game. That's because he made too much money. They were like, well, the purse is going to be 4,000,000 bucks. He's like, he's like, I'm just going to jump on my jet, go to Japan and take some photos for like 20 million bucks. 9:05 I don't need to come out here and do that. So when the when the authenticity, when the, when the competition doesn't like remain authentic to the golfer, the viewer can see it. So that was at the core of it. It's like if we just lean into competition, knowing that there's a good enough players all over the world with unbelievable stories, like literally unbelievable stories that are almost better than the Rory Mcilroy's of the world. 9:30 And we put them on a par 3 venue in a two person scramble. It's built for a broadcast in the sense that when two people make a putt, when someones playing by themselves with a caddy, it's like they fist pump on the 6th hole and they're like let's go, let's go. 9:46 Like don't be too cocky because then everyone's gonna go against you. But when you're in this environment, you're playing with a buddy, with a teammate, it's like you just erupt and it's like it's just this camaraderie. And it's it's the great shots in golf have always been from 150 yards in end, you know what I mean? 10:04 So the the par. Threes, I think also add like another aspect to it 'cause you have to, you have to make birdie putts. There's no par fives, there's no getting on in two and getting eagles. There's no advantage with the driver. It's like you've either got to throw darts or you've got to bang putts. 10:21 And what's not exciting about either of those? Exactly. And when, when, when one of those putts goes in, it's like it's electric. And when you ask and you know, Ricky Barnes said in our last broadcast, he was like, the difference between golfers on the Pro Tour and you know, other tours or amateurs is the fact that, you know, Dustin Johnson or you know, name it, Cameron Smith can hit the ball 375 on #18 at The Players and have, you know, a flip wedge in to win the tournament. 10:49 Whereas I hit my driver on the screws and I got a four iron into the wind. It's like good luck. And that's that's what separates the field. And then when you remove that driver, it's a completely different ball game. Like we used to, Jimmy and I used to play with Tim Clark who won the Players South African short individual. 11:08 If you would watch him with his wedges, you were like, this guy is like an artisan. He is a, an artist the way he moves around a golf course. And you know, and so it's just like a different breed of golf. But, but that was, that was the if we if we, if we leaned into competition because competition always rules the day. 11:26 That's why the NFL is still around. That's why the MLB, the NBA, these things 'cause they didn't like, just see the new shiny thing and try to, you know, go after the new audience. So the idea was instead of asking, you know, Tom Brady and Oprah Winfrey or whoever they have on the match, you know what I mean? 11:44 Like, they try to recreate the match. Like, OK, if we just get Tom Brady and Travis Kelsey to play each other with, like some other Lindsay Lohan, like, shit, who's been in a movie before, everybody will watch it and everyone will be sitting on the edge of their seat. It was quite the contrary. 12:01 I can understand that you would want personalities like that because you would think it would lead to viewership, but that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't work. And as a, as a golf purist, it's like you turn it on and you turn it right off. And so we thought to ourselves, how do we, how do we involve both elements where it's competition and those, you know, and the Tom Brady's of the world or you know, the Lindsay Lohan's of the world or whatnot. 12:25 They become the owner of the team and then they, we, they can create an actual team. You know, 2 there's right now there's rosters out and there's 5 two person teams on the roster. There's obviously a draft next week. But this whole idea is like leverage those personalities to go out and find players like that. 12:44 And then that dynamic where you have this ultra high competitor like a Drew Kittleson, like a Ryan Ruffles or a, you know, go down those. John Peterson is now playing for another individual opposed to playing for himself on the PGA Tour. I was going to. 13:00 Ask you about that real quick, the relationship between the franchise owner and the rest of the teams, Like what kind of support or leadership are they providing? Like what? What does that look like? Well, I mean, it's different for everyone. And that's like that's kind of the beauty of the of the league. It's the beauty of just life. 13:16 It's like these eclectic individuals and they're all going to run their business, their life, their families much differently. And then the output is it is what it is. So you have certain owners that are like very hands on. Certain owners are like, Hey, I hired AGM. He's just going to run everything. And I, I always like to say like, again, the, the buzz phrase that everyone likes to use is grow the game of golf as, and no one's ever defined what that means. 13:42 You know what I mean? But we think we can, we understand it a little bit in our own world. It's like imagine you're an 8 year old kid and you got a baseball bat, basketball and a Golf Club up against your your wall and Dave Roberts puts out a tweet or goes on a show and says, you know what, I'm looking for the best 10 golfers in LA to come play for my GG team in the offseason. 14:05 I'd like to think that kids going to take a hard look at all of those, the the basketball, the baseball and the club. And he might choose the Golf Club because, again, he's aspiring to go play for something. And that's how you grow the game. Or COVID or COVID. 14:21 Yeah. I mean, you want to for a world pandemic that that probably would like turn out the opposite. You might be in jail. But that that was that's the whole premise of the grass league is like, how cool is that? If you go back, I always love to say is like if you go back and read about golf, like back in the day, you know, it's like these wealthy individuals would go find these amateur golfers and get on wooden ships and go across the Atlantic Ocean and be like, I'm meeting this guy at so and so course. 14:48 And we're going to put up, you know, 5 lbs or what whatever the currency is. And my guy's going to go play And it's like, hey, go get him, you know, rubbing his shoulders, go get him, go win US some money. Like that was that's the foundation of golf. And we're trying to like instill that into this where, you know, as I always say it, but as Earl Brooks said it in, in the movie Miracle, I'm not looking for the best ones. 15:12 I'm looking for the right ones. And there's something cool about that where it's like, you don't have to be the guy that shoots 62 all the time. You got to be the guy that carries himself well as a good teammate and maybe you can shoot 62. But there, there, there's a whole different dynamic to that. 15:27 And it's been, it's just been incredible to watch and and see develop and all the stuff because it's, there's nothing else I'd rather be doing, to be honest. No, what a life. That's a great explanation actually, which kind of let me segue that into what's coming next week. So we have a qualifier event essentially where any two person team, so anybody could have entered that, which takes place at rolling grass flippings at rolling hills and that's 108 teams I think right somewhere. 15:55 Roughly 100. I think we're going to net out about 102 teams, so you know, 204 players. And then 25 of those teams plus ties are eligible essentially to be drafted the next day by the 11 franchises, right. And then for that qualifier specifically, because I, I'll be at the qualifier next week, but I've only ever been to the open though. 16:17 What's that like pressure like for all those guys? Like, what are you noticing about those teams beforehand? Are they all getting super serious in their practice or are they, you know, taking drinks to calm the nerves beforehand? Like what's that look like? So I mean, everything across everything in the book, yeah, there's guys blind drunk getting on the, you know, they think they're so nervous that they're trying not to puke, so they're taking shots like, and then there's guys, you know, reading yardage books and all this stuff and it's, it's the coolest thing. 16:46 And again, back to like the authenticity of a golf concept or event or whatnot. Our 1st 2024 Grass Clippings Open, we had the first qualifier and a guy lipped out on 18 to and he knew he was on the cut line he was in if he made it. 17:07 And he's a grown man. You know, he was around the same age as me, had a son that was one years old and he was bawling, crying on the 18th grain and saying like how sorry he was that he let everyone down. And I was like, I looked over at the guys I started the the league with. I was like, shit, guys, we got something on our hands here. 17:23 That guy's a 31 year old guy just bawling, crying over AR-3 lighted 2 man scramble as everyone tried to chalk it up. It's like this actually has a lot of meaning. And it just goes back to like, you know, you know, the whole world of like influencer golf. 17:41 They are bringing a lens to the game of golf and entertainment and, and, and, and it's incredible what they're doing. But at the end of the day, it's like, go put the ball in the hole. You know what I mean? I like, and that's cool. That's bad ass. 17:57 It's like you get to show up, you and your buddy, whoever you're you're playing with and it's like, hey, we got eighteen holes to go do it. Let's do the perfect lap. Cuz will will crop would say, I had a call from last night. We're on the phone for two hours. He's just like, he's like, you know, me and Sam, we're just trying to do, do the perfect lap just like NASCAR. 18:12 He's like 18 birdies. That's what we're going for. We're not even playing anybody. I was like that. You don't get that in golf. Like you get that in football, you get the Al Pacino speeches is like you're going to look around the room and you'll see a guy he's willing to go that inch with it. And then you go to what like, you know, the Valero open or you know, whatever. 18:29 And it's like, OK, here we go. We got Webb Simpson playing with Patrick Cantlay. It's like, oh, this would be great for his career. Where is where's Al Pacino in that scenario? You know what I mean? It's. It's really tough with the PGA Tour because you feel like there's this whole entire like grind of all the guys in Q school and corn fairy and they're all trying to make that next leap and get up to the tour. 18:55 And then guys get on the tour and it's just like, OK, and that's it. And like that's like that's it. Like they've they made it. And then either they bounce back and forth and then like a few guys tend to surge out and maybe have some breakout years here and there. 19:12 A few guys take a few years to to kind of bubble up. But it's like, man, like they really kind of lose you a little bit on like what these guys like the work that takes in and how appreciative they are, because then it gets drowned out by, you know, Rory winning a second green jacket or, you know, like we're not even I mean, shit, we watched the masters and it's like, Oh, you miss like outside of outside of the guys who were in the top 4, you maybe saw ten shots from an from any other guy total. 19:41 Yeah, and that's like you you go talk to professional golfers like, hey, they're like most guys aren't even trying to win. They're just trying to trying to top 10 or trying to top 20. It's like you top 25 every week. You are going to be a very wealthy golfer and have a great career and no one will ever have seen you play golf on on on television. 19:59 It's like guys just like, yeah, I played 25 years on the on the tour and made, you know, X amount of millions of dollars. It's like. I've never heard of that guy. It's like, yeah, he was in every tournament, finished tie 30 every week. And like, but to your point, it's like even when you get there, the pressure doesn't stop. 20:15 Just because you got your tour card doesn't mean anything for sure. Again, you're an independent contractor. You're you're you're paying for your own flights, you're paying your caddy, you're doing paying for your own food. And and it's lonely. It's like you go out and like you're sleeping on the lead on Saturday night and you're like, OK, here we go. 20:33 Your family's most likely back home if you have kids or anything or whatever your situation is, and you're probably split in a room with a caddy that you know, it's like a shaky girlfriend is always your caddy. It's like if I missed this, but he's gone, you know, 5 hour, huh? Well, you're fired. 20:48 It's like it's just there's no one to celebrate with you. Like, it's just a weird model and the way it's been structured, not to say it's the wrong way, but if if you do it the right way with the right intentions, there's room for a little bit of creativity in other aspects. 21:05 We would never consider ourselves to be a competitor of the PGA Tour. If anything, we want to supplement what they're doing. We want to continue to, you know, pledge allegiance to the flag of the PGA Tour, but but get a little, have a little fun, get a little creative and do it a little bit differently so. 21:21 Well, I think what you guys are bridging that gap too, is that you have some PGA Tour interest over here, right? So you got like Wyndham Clark is the owner of the munis, I think the San Diego munis. And then you've got I, I saw a profile on someone forgetting his name, who just was like, he played in the Masters in 1988 or something like that. 21:39 Yeah, I cannot. I haven't met the guy. It's unbelievable. Yeah, you have these like pedigrees and stuff who are taking interest over in your guys league, which is cool because I think not only it shows they're buying into it, but that there's some validation that comes with that. That's like, no, this, this is not just like a local thing. 21:56 This is becoming a this is becoming more bigger than just what it is. And you have all this interest now coming from these people who in the beginning, in the early days, you might have had to go seek out, right. But now it's coming in. It's like almost like capturing that demand. And then you got Golf Channel as well, showing some of the stuff. 22:12 And I just feel like it's kind of turning into a, a production that like is something you already believed in, but now people can get behind as well. Yeah, and it's like we, we, we, we built this with the idea that like we built it for the players because we knew there was something missing. 22:30 When you're playing Professional Golf and you go from the PGA Tour or even Canadian Tour, porn, fairy, whatever. But when you decide that you're not going to play those tours anymore, you play Professional Golf. The Cliff is very steep. 22:46 You go from that to playing at your local, you know, Country Club and a member guest or a member member. And, you know, a guy like John Peterson, I can only imagine how many strokes he's given at his local course. It's like the guy was the, you know, won the college national championship at LSU, had a hole in one of the 2012 U.S. 23:05 Open, and now he's playing at, you know, so and so Country Club in a bingo bango bongo game. It's like where and they're all starving. They're all like, they're they're addicted. Like I would argue that like everybody who plays golf is addicted to something in the, in in the realm of it. 23:21 Like some guys are like, just want to hit my 5 arm, your 20 cap, your 20 handicaps, like just want to hit that five arm straight again, you know what I mean? And then you have these like elite predators are like, I want to be on a stage and feel my blood coming through my veins and, and my, you know, blood vessels are about to to burst because I'm the adrenaline's going. 23:39 I'm nervous or whatnot. As Tiger Woods always said, if you're not nervous, it doesn't matter to you. You don't care. And that's the worst. Like apathy is the worst. And so you get a guy like Steve Ford who played in the 88 masters semi finalists at the 87 US AM, you know, seven Hooters tour win. I'm a huge Hooters tour guy. 23:56 Who is it that is that is 60 years? He's old. He's like, he's probably like, this probably came out as radar and he's like, this has got to be fake. What the hell are we talking about? And they probably did some research. He's like, OK, sign up right there. He's like. Yeah, right. We're going to Phoenix, baby. He's from Florida. 24:11 It's like that was the whole purpose is like we're trying to create the stage and create that environment, create that moment for these guys that are essentially addicted to it in the most like pure way possible and the most romantic way possible. And that's like that's what gives me goosebumps. 24:30 Like I can't wait to shake the guy's hand and and go watch him in the qualifier like. That's the coolest part. We, TJ, if you don't mind naming a few names, we have a few people in our circle who are going to be at that qualifier actually or trying out for this this year. Most definitely. I mean you talk about people chasing the competitive nature, right? 24:48 Like there's a lot of us that get into golf because it gives us something to continually chase and get better at. But then also that strive of that competition because you can take golf from either being a super cash visual game to then, you know, going and playing in the grass league and playing for super high stakes where the hearts beaten over every shot or every putt. 25:06 So you've got guys like the birdies in the outfield guys Jamel and Brandon who are coming out, former college baseball players who are just absolutely in love with competing and have been missing that since they left college. We have Andrew Zanzig, former must play alumni over at My Golf Spy. 25:24 He's qualified on one of their teams. A guy who also loves com competing I think plays in the goat hill skins game literally every week. The guy. The guy loves himself a good birdie on a par 3 course. And he's good. And he's good. 25:39 He, yeah, he, he hits, he hits the ball well. And he and the guy knows how to roll the rock. And then, you know, we've got another guy, another alumni, maybe not as well known for being good at golf, maybe more so known for being bad at golf. But Nick Bonilla, good old Bev voice coming out with Sunny. 25:57 Just love them throwing their hat in the ring and saying, hey, anybody's got a chance, right? Anybody can throw up that you know that that perfect laugh, as you said. But here's the thing, like Nick Mania signing up and going and playing is the first step is like, even if you're you're new to the game of golf and you're like, I would never go out there embarrass myself. 26:18 It's like we've all been embarrassed. I, I remember when I was like 12 years old and I cried in my bed when I missed the cut at the resorts. And I was embarrassed because I thought it was a reflection of my, my, my integrity or who I was. And I was like, my dad's like, who gives a RIP? Like go get better. 26:34 And it's like you go out there and you get your doors kicked in and then you, you pick up your bag and you go practice and we'll see you next year. You know what I mean? It's like from Happy Gilmore, like 365 yard days, you know, hockey season. I got to toughen up. It's like that people need to toughen up and it's it's it's interesting to me when certain people won't play in a qualifier. 26:56 They're like, no, I, I should be rostered. It's like, OK, well, like clearly the owners don't think so. If you're that good, go qualify. And they're like, no, I'm like, see, you're not a competitor. You're not you. You don't have the IT factor to go win a grass clippings open. Thus, if I was an owner not interested moving on, it's the guy who's willing to die who's going to win that inch. 27:15 That's what you you come to find. And then like, I feel like we're wedding through that. Like, and Andrew Zanzig, like he's an incredible writer and he's sounds like from what I've heard from Will Croft and other guys at at Godhill, he's a hell of a player. Like he doesn't care. 27:31 He's just he's he's happy to have the opportunity. And that's the coolest part. The people that respect the opportunity are the ones that should, you know, should be in this environment. Oh yeah, it's so awesome. All those all those guys that he just listed respected. But AZ especially like when we play with him at GOAT, he just is like the ultimate vibe, just having fun. 27:50 Everyone knows him. We call him the mayor of Goat Hill. And then like, and then when it's time to lock and he locks in and he sticks the greens and he just dusted my ass for the last time I played with him. Like I just need to figure this out. Do not judge a book by its cover in part 3G you will lose. 28:08 No, no. I will say, I will say though, I got to play with birdies in the outfield. The Beatle guys at Grass Clippings a couple weeks back, they're practicing for it. They're doing this whole series and they got Abe and Redford out from New York Bluebirds and it was cool to see Abe and Redford's like dynamic. 28:27 You were talking earlier about like how they psych each other up and they're just like, you know, if one puck goes in, the other guy missed it or whatever. Like they're just super amped. There's no like small golf clap or anything like that. And the competitiveness was there. And I remember like watching them intently to see like their process, like when he gets up to the ball, how they like, you know, the hush came over and then Abe would stand over it and do his thing or whatnot. 28:49 But as the drinks were flowing and we're having a little fun, I started to get to see them unwind a little bit, but still just hit these shots. Like Abe hit this one that was like he's it was like 135 yard hole or something. He pulls out seven iron. I'm like, what is he doing? And he's like, oh, watch this. 29:05 I'm going to choke down and hit a little cut 7 and just fade it in there or something like that. And he does and he puts like 5 feet from the hole. I was like this asshole like he can do this with like 3 drinks in them. And I was like, this is so cool to see. And I was just thinking about like, OK, when the hospitality's up and everything else for the open, right? 29:23 Is that still in their head? Are they still going to like go try a shot like that? Or is it like, no, go stock every single time? Like I'm just, you know, trying to hit those shots like almost like on repeat, like where they know these holes so well. But it was fun to see them like get creative on that course and not just hit the stock shot that you know you're supposed to hit at that certain yardage. 29:45 Yeah, I mean, I got to say I've gotten a lot better at golfing for, you know, more specifically, like with my my short yardage is 150 and in by playing in the skins game and being around these guys like I try to be a sponge. These guys, you know, play 6 years of the corn for you to I remember playing with Kevin Lucas and I run the you know, was it the 6th hole with the normal routing, but hole 15, our toughest hole for Grassley grounding and he's like, why are you hitting your 50° that or your 52° that high? 30:13 He's like, what are you doing? He's like, you're just praying. He's like close the club face, put it back in your stands, hit a little dart and just, and then you got Sean Harlington who's like, just try to get to your finish. And I'm like, is this what you guys are thinking about? Like I'm, I'm just trying to like, like, let's just open the routine and hit the ball pure. 30:28 And it's like, and to their point, they're like, you're literally just throwing the ball up in the middle of the air and just hoping that it it does something good. And he's like, if you were playing in the NFL, you would never just drop back and be like you're, you're trying to precisely throw the football. And it's no different in golf. 30:44 So like, however you can make the ball go in a way that is going to give you the most advantages or make it most advantageous to be close to the hole. Just do it. I don't care if you hit driver. It's like just hit the golf shot. You know how to hit. And it's just, it's a, it's an honor to play with those guys because I feel like I've gotten a lot better. 31:00 Do you have a favorite hole in the open routing? I I mean, yeah, it's 15. It's. Yeah, it's, it's because I always say like that's that typically is where you figure out who who actually has a chance to win the tournament. 31:18 Because like, you know, it's interesting. On the last broadcast, I looked over at Ned and I was like, I was like, are you picking up on what, what's happening right now? I was like, what do you mean? I was like, there's two, there's two tournaments going on right now because you have such a large field. And based on the, the tee time situation is like, you know, we had Drew Kittleson and, and Stoltz and Gabby Ruffles and Ryan Ruffles that were a little bit earlier teeing off. 31:42 And it felt we followed them the whole time through their back 9. And it felt like that was the tournament. Like they, you know, she makes the putt, they hug and it's like, the tournament's over. It's like, no, wait, we let's go back to 10 green is Kevin Lucas and Matt Ryan and they're like and, and Kevin Lucas makes the putt. 32:00 It's like, oh, wait, there's three off the lead now, like they should win. And the we got a new tournament. We're on 11 T and it's like we just got 2 tournaments out of this. And so 15 is always like this deciding hole where it's like if you birdie that it, it can really springboard you. 32:16 You saw Curt Watkins and Jake Byron Watkins almost aced it tap in for birdie, then they birdie 161718 to win the grass clippings open last year. So it's like the, the, the pivotal deciding hole. It's got all the antics, it's got all the people and the grandstands there. 32:32 And it's statistically the hardest hole in the golf course. So it's, it's really like, you know, it's like, again, I don't care who you are, put the ball in the hole. You know on on the regular routing of grass clippings. I think 18's the hardest in my opinion. 32:47 I hate that hole. I just, I like, I like I only because I've just played eighteen holes, you know, and I'm starting, it's like usually when I play at night, you know, it's like 10/30, 11:00 PM and I'm like winding down and then you see that giant gulf between the tee box and the green all lit up over there, you know, and for some reason I'm always in those bunkers left of the green. 33:08 Like that hole kicks my ass every time. But in the open routing, you guys finish on 9, I think, and the hole before that, which is I guess 17 for the open, the downhill one, that's my favorite hole by far. You get the view of the city. 33:24 If you're there at sunset, you get sunset there and you're trying to figure out how much club to take off. And it's just such a beautiful little hole. And every time we're out there, we take photos. I just, I think that's such a good second to last hole for the open too. Yeah, that's like that tee box is like the outpost. 33:39 It's like you can see everything and like you stand there and like the world stands still and you have like commercial airlines flying over. Yeah, and you got wind usually too up there. Yeah, we're going to do something here soon and we're we're actually going to test it, I think this weekend or early next week. 33:55 But a concept of like some kind of game from there. It's like if no one was on the golf course, you can see even when I say C is like you could potentially hit to like 10 different greens. It's like the most, it's like the coolest thing in every potential shot. 34:14 Like, you know, angle or, you know, view is like something out of a video game. You're like holy spokes, if we played this hole, it'd be probably this far. It's like this should be the core. So we're we're we're scheming up some kind of maybe it'll be a grassing event someday, but there's a yeah, I got to agree with you. 34:29 It's like I was thinking about that country song sitting out here watching airplanes. It's like airplanes going by. You got the game of golf that you love that you just can't figure out. It's just like a romantic country song. You're a man of references. Has anyone ever told you that? My wife, my wife, my wife. 34:47 Just get to the point. All right? What are we talking about? Where are we going to dinner? We're going to jail. All the time too. Yeah, my wife gets nothing. She's like, Nope. Can we just, can you just tell me what it is or can we just, can you give me a regular praise to go along with that, please? Yeah. 35:02 Can I put you on mute for a second? Yeah. Earlier you talked, we were talking about AZ and go, I know you guys held the summer grind there last year. Are you going back there this year? Have you announced where that where it's going to be instead? Yeah, we're all indications we're going back there. 35:20 I don't know where else we go, but yeah, we, we, we're just so like in the, in the, in the thick of it with this tournament. Like, yeah, it's just a golf tournament. But when you think about all the little things that need to get ironed out and, and prepped for and it's overwhelming. 35:37 We're all, we're all beat up and super tired. I can't even, I don't even think the summer grind's ever going to happen because I feel like the world's going to end after this tournament. I'm like, it's just like, there's just so many things to to get done for this and we're a week out. But yeah, yeah, Summer grind at, at Goathill Park. 35:54 That place is, is, as we all know, is something extremely special. Yeah. And we're we're so fortunate to have that relationship and haven't had the opportunity to go out there and do the tournament. So and and and like you got to do it once and then it builds and then it builds. 36:10 And I was and we were sitting there, Ned Michaels, Paige Spranik and I, you know, after when the sun was going down after the last day. And we're just like, what will this tournament be like in 10 years? If, if this is like the, you know, humble beginnings, you know, this is the reception that it had. 36:26 And it was just like, if it, if we're doing this here, in 10 years from now, this thing's going to be just absolutely rocking. Oh yeah. And such a, again, another big massive stage for people to come perform on. Yeah, well, we talk, we so GOAT, we love, we've reviewed on our pod and we gave it the highest score we can give a course so far. 36:46 And we big part of that's the community. It's just the people, right. And I think grass clippings is kind of as a course starting to become the rallying point for a lot of community, but also for out of towners. 37:01 Of course, like that's I mean, we had our bachelor party, my buddy's bachelor party night one last week at grass clippings because I was like, that's just the move. Everyone's got to do it. You know, you got to do it. I could have sworn we saw three other parties out there when we were there. But living locally, because I'm here in the valley, when I go during the summer and it's hot and everyone's left and knowing it's just us locals, I, I still go there and I still run into people who like snuck out of work a little early and decided to make a little evening or afternoon for themselves, you know, and roll in the tea time that like ends right around sunset, dark kind of thing. 37:38 And it just seems like such a good move for the, for the that area. Like you have Papa go right next door, of course, right. And Papa go has one of my favorite patios at Lou's. I just think that's like one of the best places to be. But but if you're going to go try and fit something in, you can't fit in that course. 37:56 It's a full 18 and it's a tough course. So you're probably going to book something separate. But grass whippings and goat, both are something that you could get a loop around within three hours ish maybe and fit in maybe Glen Rosa grass whippings or like have a beer at the at the up top at goat like by the clubhouse. 38:16 And both are just such like a cool vibe that like it made sense to me when I saw the open and you guys have your championship. I think grass hippings as well. But like it, it's almost like a a showcase of that course for the rest of the year. And people see that and now they're like, we got to go check out that course. 38:31 I want to go try that Part 3 course. And then at night or whatever, you know, it's not just the lights. I think it's like really interesting to see how it's become like a staple, I think in the Valley. Yeah, and, and, and it being compared in the same, you know, is in the same sentence as Goat Hill is like, you know, is I don't we're not worthy of that yet. 38:54 And we've taken so much from from that community. It's crazy. Like the Will Crop stories of the world, you know, like Will Crop was in, in, in, in I for some reason, I always end up on Will Crop's story because it like it means so much to me And it it it, it it's so many crossing paths. 39:09 But like, Will Crop was an unbelievable golfer at Oklahoma, goes on to play on the Latin America tour, wins in Argentina in a playoff against on Hill Cabrera on on Hill Cabrera's home course. Like he was destined to be the guy. He goes on to the Korn Ferry. 39:26 And like many people find out that Professional Golf is not a glamorous life. And like was kind of in and out. Like good enough, clearly good enough to be there a crazy competitor. And the way he told me the story and John Ashworth and everyone kind of tells the story at Goat Hill is like, you know, when, when COVID hit, hit Will Cropp was, you know, in Palm Desert in his his RV and COVID hits and he's like got his wife and and and his kid in the in the RV like he's chasing golf. 39:57 If you want to talk about Tin Cup, you know, Rory McAvoy of the world, like he is in love romantically with the game of golf and he's doing whatever he does. And he has like a breakdown in Palm Desert. He's like, I, I can't do this anymore. Like I need to take the pressure off my shoulders. 40:12 And they got in the RV. The way they tell it is they just drove to the ocean and they didn't really know where they're going. They're both from Oklahoma and they pull into Oceanside and they go to the ocean and they're walking on the in the, in the ocean, on the beach and. 40:29 Will Cropp's wearing a linksul shirt with Peter Beam on there. And sure enough, he runs into to Beam and they start talking and he's like whoa, And they start like exchanging stories about golf and Beam comes to realize very quickly where he was at in life. 40:46 He was like he's got he's like the way. And again, I'm just hearing this from, you know, third party, but it it again gives me goosebumps hearing this from this. They're like he Beam can see like the wife and kid over at the RV and crop is, you know, talking about golf in this like just, you know, disruptive manner of like, I don't even know what I'm doing. 41:06 You know what I mean? Like you're kind of just hit the end of the road and he's like he's like, well, get your family, get in your RV and go go up to go and talk to John. I get emotional when I hear about it, but it's like, go talk to John and he's like drove up there sort of working at the golf course and has been there ever since. 41:25 And now he's teaching all the junior programs full time. Like, and he didn't even really know about the grass league until we were going to go to summer grind last year. Austin Quick, you know, the captain of Phoenix United was like, we need to get Will Croft. Of course, Will Croft's like debating whether or not to go try to get back on the the the Korn Ferry Tour and all this stuff. 41:47 He signs up. He's now on the Phoenix United. The first time he was we were talking about last night, he was like, dude, I didn't even know really what the grass league was until you guys showed up to do a match and it's you, Paige Steranek and Michael Roush and the other team, Matt Ryan, Kevin Lucas and my partner. 42:04 And he's like, and Austin Quick. He's like, that was my first experience. He's like, it's literally changed my life. He's like, I decided not to go to pursue that. Like I, I'm committed to this. It allows me to be with my family, continue to work at GOAT and aspire to play in these big in these events in big stages. 42:22 Hence him and his partner in that the summer grind were the the low two man team. Even though it was a team aggregate event, he essentially won the 2 the low two man so and now he's like fully integrated. He signed A2 year contract with Phoenix United with a team option on the on the on the for the third year. 42:42 Whoever thought would be saying that stuff when we start the guys finding team options and shit, it's. So crazy. I love when life does that kind of stuff. And just right place, right time, yeah. So I, I don't know how I got on that tangent, but I always like, like the connection to Goat Hill. 42:58 And I don't even know if we want to hear the story, but like, my connection to Goat Hill too, was I've been playing in a, in a golf tournament in Minnesota my entire life. It's the only golf tournament I care about like competitively for myself. Like it's been my, my bar, my crying in bed about missing the cut, my relationship with my dad, my dad's, like, if you don't win this tournament, we're thinking we're going to think about disowning you. 43:21 You know what I mean? And I've played in it every year since I was 12 years old until now, except one year. Unfortunately, my wife, I, I, I somehow love her more than the resorters. But she has a family reunion every every week, every week during the same week as the resorters. 43:41 And every week it's like, if we're going to get a divorce, it's going to be over one thing. It's over this damn golf tournament and her family reunion. And the one year before we got married, I told myself I was like, I'm probably going to marry this girl I like, I love her. I, I got, I got to go out there and I didn't go to the resorters. 43:59 And it turns out her family reunion is in Oceanside, CA And we get there and I'm kind of just just bummed. And, and one of her cousins who's the local high school coach or college coach, sorry, on a golf team, he's like, dude, I can tell you're bummed. 44:15 He's like, let's get in the car, let's go play some golf. I was like, all right, he's like, I'm taking you to the GOAT. And I was like, it's just so fitting that the one time I don't play in my childhood golf tournament, I'm at, I'm at the GOAT meeting John Ashworth and I'm just like, and then in a roundabout way, we're back here for the summer grind. 44:31 It's like, I don't know if there, if there is a golf God up there. I, I really, I think he's, he's doing something in in with this. Yeah, GOAT did that for me, too. GOAT, I literally said to TJ after a round at GOAT, I was like, I'm moving here. Like it was that moment that for me that like really, really locked it in. 44:50 Like GOAT was something special for me. And now I'm literally moving next week just South of GOAT. You are, yeah. That's incredible. And I like, literally was looking at goat as like on the map every time I was looking at home. So I was like, OK, how far am I from this? Like just trying to do the math. Yeah. That's so awesome. 45:08 OK. About you though, real quick, you briefly touched on you here. Before we go, I just want to know more about Todd Dopps. So I have a question for you about your golf specifically because you live out here in the Valley. Yeah. OK. So we obviously do must play courses. 45:25 We review courses, we put them up to A10 question test and then we see if they pass the test. The test includes everything from, you know, how challenging the course is for you are a high handicapper or anyone in between the like experience of like, you know, getting drinks after the round, are you going to hang out? 45:42 How's like the food at the turn? We also do stuff like would you buy merch from this place, etcetera. So I was curious for you, is there any course out here in the valley that's close to you that you would ever put up to the must play test for us that you think like someone coming in from out of town has to go hit this course? 46:03 Damn, I mean it's tough when I'm a part of grass tippings where it's like. We've already done grass tippings. In Yeah, I know. So that's a that's a great question. Gosh, the old mountain Shadows before the the developers came in was was, Oh my gosh, that was the that was like Caddyshack. 46:23 That was the place I used to work there. Yeah. Is that why you guys held it at Mountain Shadows in the beginning? I said why we did it was just we had we just started playing a ton of par 3G and started playing the par 3 skins game. We're like we this is amazing and it's the only Part 3 course really in town so. 46:42 I heard, I heard rumor that the guests were a little unhappy towards the end there and that's why it left. Oh, well, the, everyone but the homes, everyone lived in the homes is like, yeah, you put on a little tournament, you know, and then there's like 2000 people out there walking, you know, and peeing in the trees and like. 47:01 We. Didn't have the infrastructure to like even know that 2000 people be interested in watching this. So just like a, you know, an honest mistake, but they were like, and, and mountain shadows, like you guys have broken every food and beverage record we've ever had, like weddings, like conventions, But we're, we're, I don't know how we're going to continue doing this going forward. 47:20 And I was like, guys, we cannot even like, we're putting a lot of things at risk. We need to find a new location immediately. If we're worried about 2000, we're trying to get 8, you know what I mean? It's like, and we want TV trucks. What are they going to do when a crane's coming through their, their driveway with a, you know, with a forklift and a guy with a camera? 47:38 It's like. You know, I've had this conversation with plenty of other people when I meet people and they've, I either see that they're wearing gear from Arizona or they said they just got back from a trip in Scottsdale. And you'll, you know, you'll usually ask if they're on a trip. Like, you know, did you go out and play grass clippings, right? 47:56 Like it's a thing that people, if they're visiting, they want to go do because it is unique, right? Night golf in itself is very unique. And every time I talk to somebody who's like out here in San Diego, we're always trying to think of like, well, where could we do that at? 48:11 Like where? Because the spot that you guys have is so unique because of the zoo and the no noise ordinance and the no light ordinance and all of the space. Like we rack our brains in San Diego all the time and say the only way that you do it is if you go like an hour in. 48:32 And that's like, that's pretty much it. That's the tough part. It's like we always say we found a diamond in the rough. Like, yeah, you totally did. Yeah. And it's OK. But back back to choosing. Of course, though, I'm not going to. Use it it I mean like does it have to be public or? 48:47 Public. Public golf course, OK. Yeah. Gosh, I really like the the reason I'm like choking, like choking up is all I really do is play night golf anymore. It's like I got 3 kids a job that I I don't have enough time for and the only time I ever play is like teen off at 9:30 at night. 49:06 I crash clippings, but I'd say auction down down in Maricopa. Yeah, Southern Dunes. It's incredible. Like not only the, the golf course is, is, is it's awesome. It's like it'll beat you up and make you a better golfer. 49:22 It's beautiful and all that stuff. But their range with, you know, the ability to convert that into a par 3 course at night for certain events, they, they do roundings and all that stuff. And then they have the football goal post in the middle where guys are shaping shots and all that stuff. 49:38 And I'm like, I'm trying to get one of those at our course at, at the driving range so we can bring the kicker over from, from ASU and you know, and like, spell out the driving range. Imagine if he's kicking, you know, 40 yard field goals in front of a sold out driving range. No one's hitting balls and people are betting on them that they get better. 49:57 In the range too, they have a field goal person out there. Yeah. But I, I, I'd say, yeah, Southern Dens that's it's in the ownership and, and, and management there is it's, it's worth going down there. Yeah, that's great. Course, we we reviewed that one. I think we passed that one. 50:13 And just last week, TJ had never been. I took him to Whirlwind for the first time last week. That range, when you talked about auction having a great range, the range at Whirlwind feels almost identical to the range at auction. It's it was very weird, like the placement of the putting green and the chipping green and the bonker was like nearly identical to how I felt out at auction. 50:36 It was. I had like a weird case of deja vu. Yeah. Yeah, it's so much fun spiced. Down a good driving range, yeah. Absolutely. OK. Well, I want to make sure I leave time for you to promote anything coming up. Obviously we have the open coming up, but is there anything else you want to talk about related to grass clippings or grass leak? 50:55 I mean, there's just so much going on. And what I say is, you know, we're going to start selling these hats. We just got them in. They're they're incredible. You know, pick your team, pick a pick, pick a franchise, pick a player. But you know, it's really cool to see where we started and what the track we're on and and keeping the same values and the foundation of what we we we set out for intact. 51:17 The players that are coming into this tournament, they're not Rory McIlroy. I get it. But in my opinion, if Rory and Scotty showed up for two person scramble, I don't think they win and put, you know, hot tape. You can you can quote me on that. But like, we got guys like John Peterson, Willie Wilcox, you know, Ty, I'm going to screw his name up again and he's going to be mad at me. 51:40 It's not Strafaki. It's. Trafaki, there we go. You know, won the USAM in 2020. That's five years ago. It's not like he's an old fossil or an old dinosaur. This guy's young. He's 27. You know, Drew Kittleson's back. The, the, the, the, you know, they're going to make a movie about him someday. 51:57 The Las Vegas action, their first triumph into the grass league. They got Jennifer Song, Willie Mack the third. Coltnos is on the bench, you know, nursing a sore knee and there's just, you know, there's there's so many golfers out there that deserve to have their story told, to be on a stage, to be in front of people and they're finally coming, coming for this. 52:19 And we're still have the the qualifier. So anybody can sign up. It's like this isn't it's some close knit to where we're like, OK, you have blonde hair and you have brown eyes and you got a couple followers on Twitch or whatever. No, no, put the ball in the hole. Like we're here to win. 52:36 And what I'd say is we're going to be live on the Golf Channel on Saturday, April 25th from 6:00 PM to 9:00 PM Pacific Time. And we're also going to be live streaming before that on our YouTube channel and most likely with golf channels, YouTube channel and then Friday and we're going to have a, a live stream of the, of the draft on Thursday. 52:59 So there's just, there's just a lot going on and a lot for people to sink their teeth into. If you really, really love golf. What I can say is that the league, the people behind it, the people involved, it comes from the right place. We know who we are and we we know what we're not. 53:17 And we're going to remain authentic. And we hope it comes through in, in the production that we put out there and the product we put out there. And as we like to say, if you can make it, we'd love to have you. I think it does come through and you're amazing on camera as well, by the way, so hats off to you. And I know you're clearly a busy man, so I appreciate your time coming on here today too. 53:38 Yeah, I my, my wife just texted me and said the boys are not asleep. A six year old, a four year old and a 2 year old. So oh boy, I got my hands full going back home. So yeah, I really appreciate you guys having me on and I'll see you on Wednesday. Yeah, I'll be there on Wednesday for everyone. 53:57 Also, just real quick for Must Play, you can watch any of these over on YouTube on our channel and you can subscribe if you would like to help us out and rate US five stars anywhere you listen to the podcast, it would really help out. But otherwise, Todd, thank you so much for joining man, and I'm excited to maybe see you on Wednesday. 54:15 Love it, you'll see me. All right. Thanks, Todd. Take care. See. You guys.