Hey listeners, welcome back to another episode of Must Play. Sorry it's been a little while, but we are back. And we were talking about Foothills Golf Course here in Ahwatukee in Arizona with our good friend Austin Tennant, also known as that Catch your on on Instagram. It just went through some renovations. It's trying to earn back some of its reputation. 0:15 How is this course going to score on the Must Play test? Stay tuned to find out. 0:29 Hello and welcome to another episode of Must Play. We're talking Foothills Golf Club today with our good friend Austin Tennant. Austin How's it going, man? Fantastic. Thank you for having me, gentlemen. It's a pleasure. This is a real background here your workshop, not a fake 1, correct? Yeah, practically. 0:46 Aaron from Rustic Golf Revisions is screaming in his jeans right now at seeing another workshop on the on the podcast. We got a chance to play together at Foothills, which is my first time getting to meet you, TJ, and you played previously to that, but you've been playing a lot of desert golf lately and I just got to give you a shout out. 1:02 You make desert golf look good the way you frame shots and how the shots look. I appreciate that. Yeah, I thought it started out with a compliment and then kind of ask you. I saw you were at Quarry Pines recently. How was that? Oh my gosh, I can't can't say it was one of my favorite courses, but it was very unique. 1:26 Being in a quarry. All the slopes on the back nine were just insane. The greens were hard to read, super undulated. It was a good experience. It was worth the drive down there for sure. I would. 1:42 I would do it again, Absolutely. Yeah. The front 9 was a little underwhelming, but two? Completely. Different. So this is fun. So I talked to Rez for those uninformed, Senor Rezniko, also Austin, who I've also played rounds of with with Austin, who was also downplaying Corey Pines with them, and Austin felt the other way. 2:05 He liked the front 9 and thought that the back 9 was too gimmicky. He he strikes me as the Muni guy though he lives on Kanto. He loves that like Muni vibe. I feel like that's why he probably. And also through chatting with him, I talked about how I was like, well, you got to go down there. 2:23 It's the only quarry course in Arizona. And he promptly corrected me. Apparently there's one in Parker, which to I also responded, might as well not be in Arizona. Parker is literally. 2:40 On the Arizona call, give it to us, man. You got to give. It to us, I mean, technically it is, but by no means like is it? I mean, I think it's probably not. It's probably a little bit further of a drive, not much more than actually going down to Quarry Pines. 2:57 But I I guess we are technically liars when it comes to the Quarry Pines podcast, Sean. OK, well we will make a apology video later. Yeah, when we hand deliver the. The black must play black. We will not say Arizona's only Corey course on the black. 3:15 Yeah, yeah, Austin, so you have a very unique swing follow through. How would you describe it? What? What are you? What are you achieving with that? Follow through in your own terms? It comes naturally, I must say, like I, I don't try to do it. 3:33 I, I get a lot of comments that it looks like Scotty Scheffler's swing or I'm trying to be like Scotty Scheffler. It's it, that's just not the case. I honestly think naturally it's going to save my back in the long run from releasing all that torque in my, from my spine and just swing free, man. 3:54 Do you think I I'm not worrying about what I look like out there? What is going to look good is a good golf swing. Yeah. When I first started it was pretty bad with my feet flying over the top bad. But now that I've shallowed out and I've kind of controlled that a lot more, It's it's getting better and still being able to let it all go, not just stay stuck in the ground. 4:23 I totally see the back point by the way. Like, you're right, but what's that story with Tiger? Like with the spike shoes? That's like why he part of the reason he really messed up his back was how much torque he was creating. And he was so planted that he just if he had the sky Scheffler, you know, for example, maybe he would still be, I mean, he's Tiger no matter what. 4:41 So I can't say he'd still be Tiger. Hesitant on that comparison, Yeah. I was. The record stayed here. He's still Tiger. Yeah, we could do a whole another hour on that and then some, yeah. Yeah, OK. Well, let's talk about Foothills real quick. 4:57 So, first impressions, TJ. This was your first trip out to Foothills, right? Yeah, my first time out there historically have not played a ton of South Valley courses. I'm more of a central northern Scottsdale, like northeast kind of guy. 5:19 But Sean had came to the table and said, hey, this course has gone through a handful of different management companies and finally Trune got their hands on it. I think this might be the time that they figure it all out. We need to get down there as they, they, I think they had reopened maybe the day before we played it, I think. 5:38 Yeah, from. Overseas. So I knew it was like, let's get down there, let's get it to the test as soon as possible with all of that new stuff in there and really, really press it. And I got to be honest, if I'm looking at like my headlines for the golf course, they absolutely nail the course adjacent amenities. 6:03 The without going into the full must play test, but the range is great. The turn stand is great, the the restaurant, the simulator bar, the patio, all of that stuff is great and I think they are directing the golf course in the right direction, but I don't know if the golf course is there yet. 6:27 In terms of like the like the layout, the bones of the course. Yeah, I mean, there's only so much you can actually do with the golf course layout, right? I don't think they were going to come in there with bulldozers and really figure it out or add elevation or a ton of that. 6:43 But the there's bones there of a of at least a good golf course. But they definitely probably need to shore up some of the conditions of the course, I'd say, I think. It's funny to say that because the conditions are night and day better than they were previously, which was part of the reason we wanted to go for sure. 7:05 I would say, I would not say that we played in bad conditions that day, just thick. Those were not bad conditions at all, but they there's definitely room for improvement. Is what I'm saying. Yes, Sir. Yes. Sir. 7:20 Awesome. How about you? I know you played there a few times. What? What do you think? I think the same thing. Overall it's a good experience. It's a good beginner to medium, you know, mid handicap golfer experience, even if you're a low handicap golfer. 7:39 It's a it's a challenge, but it's for giving off the T, which is very nice and then even leading to the greens. It's not desert golf, even though it is in the middle of the desert next to a mountain. 7:55 And that's what makes it less challenging, is it's kind of next to the mountain rather than on, even though the clubhouse is up on, which makes it a better experience, too. You know, walking out of the clubhouse and seeing the course down low and now over the valley below and the sunsets there are phenomenal. 8:18 Yeah, it's cool. So, yeah, I mean, overall, it's a good experience. But like TJ said, I would like to see it in three years, four years. I think they'll get the the clubhouse situation figured out. As far as filling it up it it seemed kind of empty. 8:36 Because of that, there's that private event space, like right in the middle that takes up a huge portion essentially of the clubhouse, right that's. That should be the clubhouse. There's there's that, yeah. But I mean, they have what what what their pro shop is currently also felt extremely empty at the time when we went. 8:54 It felt like there was like there was a bunch of stuff on the walls and then it felt like there was maybe like 4 racks of clothes and they're like they have room in there for like a full putting green. Like they have like a small little like practice green in there. Like they have tons of space to do more stuff. 9:10 I don't think you necessarily want to take up the event space 'cause I know how big the wedding business is in Arizona, so they'd rather let that sit dormant and keep it busy on Fridays and Saturdays. Yeah. But yeah, the the the pro shop also could probably use a little help as well. 9:30 Yes, I got some fun facts about that clubhouse. There's a reason it looks like that. Oh gosh, we'll we'll get to in. History. What about you, Sean? What did you think 'cause you've, you've, you have a ton of history here. You've, you've probably played this. Would you say you probably played this close to like 10 times? Are we? 9:45 Are we on one hand two hand over? Over 10 times for sure. I I went back to like kind of see and in 18 birdies I had 7 rounds entered into this and it went back to 2020. Oh, wow. Or 2021, yeah. But yeah. 10:04 OK, so I got bullets here for mine and I just highlights real quick. I do like the hole layouts on some of the holes. I think there's some challenging approach shots, not every hole the grill at the turn, excellent job. I was very impressed with the guy working the grill. 10:20 Good hot dogs and was very fast. Courses in way better condition when we played it than it was previous. And there's a whole back story which we'll get into on that staff I thought was extremely friendly. You could tell they were going out of their way to earn back business 'cause they're trying to win that reputation back. 10:38 And so I, I gave the guy a compliment too at the bag stand at the end. I was like, hey man, it's, it's not going unnoticed. And he was like, thank you, I appreciate that. It's not either in the whole community. Yeah. That was that was one of your previous gripes of past management, right? 10:55 Was it was like it felt like everybody who worked there definitely did not want to actually work there. No, not necessarily. It was more so that the pride wasn't there in the course. I feel like. I feel like the Troon management, everyone who came in and got it right the second time around, they like there was probably more training or something like that, but I don't know. 11:17 People felt more there was more pride in it than there was previously. But I've never had like a poor. Experience with staff. And then my last shout out is to the dude who lives off the green on hold too. That's always blasting music. Shout out to him. I don't know if he's listening to this plot. He's living life and I appreciate him. 11:34 One of these days I'm going to go shake his hand. But I for every round I've always played, and I told TJ before we even saw him, I was like, there's this one dude that's always blasted music every time I've been here. And sure enough, he was. And he was out there without the shirt off, playing his music, just. Behind the green on Zoo. And it was funny because you, you luckily snuck that story in like on one. 11:52 You're like, oh, there's this guy who lives on this course. I can't remember, only lives on. He's always just like shirtless in his backyard, just jamming like seventies, 80's rock. And lo and behold, I was like, thank God you told me, 'cause I was like, this is the guy. 12:07 Like you pull up and you immediately know based on the story, you're like, there's no way there's two of these guys on this golf course. Yeah. Yeah, you can hear him like a couple holes down. Sure. Like, oh God, yeah, the guy. Sets the tone for the day really like. A few, a few times I've heard him blending things out there. 12:25 He'll probably like, you know, pina colada, margaritas or something going on back there. What a life I mean. He's definitely chipping and putting in the evenings. But there's a segue into my cons, which is there's a lot of homes on this course. Essentially OB on this course are homes almost on every hole. 12:46 And so for the, IT kind of makes it feel like other courses that I'm not a huge fan of out here because of that, like Lone Tree for those in Chandler who've played those ones, or Greenfield over here in Scottsdale, reminds me of a bit of Starfire, like just homes along the entire holes for most of the holes. 13:05 And then I called out the clubhouse still feels a bit big and empty to an extent, which is odd. And then this one's very specific, but I want to see if this one resonates with you. 2 I had a really hard time remembering any of the par threes. 13:25 Do any of the Part 3 stick out to you in your mind like you could probably remember? Only the really long one, I think there was one that like from the whites, it felt like it was like 185 and but it's like it's dead flat like it was. 13:43 So there's it was. There's four par threes. Can you in your mind describe to me right now what the four par threes look? Like, I mean, there's OK, so I can remember the one where I hooked one left and I put it immediately in a house. And then I remember Austin standing in the bunker and pulling a massive rock out of the bunker. 14:03 And that led us to having a discussion about how do rocks end up in bunkers. I I think that's like that's the first par 3 on the course. I think. I think that's like 50. My goodness. There's the longer par three that I talked about. 14:20 I feel like that's like. That's 7. I think that's, yeah, that's seven, 'cause I was like, I was like, I feel like that's a few holes before the turn. I cannot remember any of the other two. I I can't. I know I you struggle to do it because none of them have anything going for them. 14:39 Like, like you said, the course is on a mountain to an extent, right? Yeah, but there's not a lot of elevation, no. Elevation no. Water No. Exactly. No like wow feature about it, Yeah. Yeah, so I know it's a gripe, it's specific, but you know, hey, I I'd like to have a par three. 14:56 That's like I want it back. I mean none of the par threes. What? What is the signature hole actually one? Funny you say that. So I hear people say 8 is one of the coolest holes, which is the one that goes downhill and then you gotta shoot over water on that shot to get to the like semi island green. 15:17 Which is funny 'cause it's a shared green with 1 Shared. It's a shared green and pond with one, yeah. Yeah, but that's the one that a lot of people point to. I could see that too. Yeah, I mean that's, that's subjective. I don't know if that's the signature. Hole, I mean, obviously when we get to rating it, I mean, I thought I I felt the same way. 15:37 I felt the way that you felt about the par threes, about a lot of the course. Yes. I was like, you know, I don't. I didn't think that anything really, nothing was like glaringly bad where I'm like, oh, this is just a bad golf hole. 15:55 I'd go play it again 100%. I would too. That's what I'm saying. It's a it's a fair place to go play. You're it. We'll get into it in the test as well. But for the value that we got that day too, like it's good value for what it is. To an extent, that's due to the issues they had with the opening the first time and losing some trust in the in the community. 16:17 Funny enough, went before a couple days ago. I'm, I don't know if you're familiar with the area in Chandler, but in downtown Chandler, there's a movie theater that has a big digital billboard on it right there. I've never seen an advertisement for a golf course. I just realized I was like, I've never seen one. 16:32 I've I've seen one for like the opens and stuff like that, but not for like a quartz. And it was like Foothills is back, and then it had like pictures of it and everything else. And I was like, let's go. Are you talking about? Like. At Chandler Fashion Center. No. In in by San Marcos Golf Course right in on Arizona Ave. in Williamsville. 16:51 Yeah, OK, that's crazy. So I've never seen digital Willow board for just like a course to say come and play? No. Yeah. No, I mean, I've seen him in, I've seen him in magazines, I've seen. Obviously tons more like a Vegas course maybe or some like resort. Type, I'm sure I've probably seen talking stick like casino courses highlighted for sure, Yeah, at like, yeah, at like, yeah, stay in place, like it's always stay in place, right. 17:17 But yeah, not just like your run-of-the-mill somewhat municipal golf course having a billboard ad. Yeah, they're putting, they're putting money into it, but. Yep, and effort. That's cool. Yeah, should we get into the history and you guys want to hear more about why they're doing? 17:33 That I, I definitely want. I'd like that. This was one of the things that I was actually more intrigued about to hear about, like how we got to where it was the day that I saw it. OK. All right, we'll dive in before. We do that. We're going to hear about our sponsor for today's episode, Bird Darts. 17:49 Today's episode of Must Play is sponsored by Bird Darts Premium Golf Tees. Nothing relaxes me more on the course than tear and open a box and RIP in a few bird darts with the boys. The 100% Bamboo golf Tees feature a clean design with marks to help you tee up your shots consistently. So your only swing thought is worrying about the cart girl who's watching you tee off. 18:08 You can also use bird darts without worrying about harming the environment. They're biodegradable and the packaging is made from recycled materials. Head over to their website birddarts.com and use code Fair wagers for 10% off today. Check out their new 4 packs they just dropped for you and all your boys. All right, let's dive into the history of Foothills here. 18:26 I'm going to read a history that I wrote up until I get to a point about a lawsuit. And I just want to make it clear that I am not giving an opinion or weighing in on this lawsuit in any way, shape or form. I'm not taking a side, I'm straight reading the facts from another article, OK? 18:44 Respect. That's called covering your ass, ladies and gentlemen. OK, this first part's me though. Awatuki, a town in the southern foothills of South Mountain, was once known as the world's largest cul-de-sac. That's because before the Loop 2O2 S Mountain Freeway opened up in late 2019, there was literally only one or two ways to get in and out of Awatuki 'cause it's on the other side of the South Mountain Range, a range that was supposed to be the southern boundary of Phoenix. 19:16 Awatuki got its name from the landowner, who attempted to translate the name of a ranch that was once built there. Before her time called Casa de Suenos or House of Dreams, she was enthralled by the people of Crow Nation in Wyoming and named the land Awatuki, which was supposed to mean House of Dreams in Crow. 19:36 Turns out it doesn't actually mean that, but she coined the name anyways, so. Do you know what it actually translates to? Do you have that? So there's like debate apparently on this. Awatuki for like a number of years said that's literally what it meant. And then came along some people saying that actually it's not quite what it means, but in Crow language there's this word called awa chuki, which means flat land. 20:01 And so now it's kind of accepted that maybe that is like by accident. Or city on a hill like. Yeah, you can look it up. But anyways, so Awa Tiki wasn't developed actually into a town until the 1970s. 20:19 Before that, this particular area of the valley was found to be a perfect area for training tanks in the US Army during World War 2. So the land that the Foothills Golf Club sits on has steep slopes and a gritty landscape, making it a close relative to some of the action that our troops were seen in northern Africa during the time so informally known as the Phoenix Proving Grounds. 20:42 After the war, the Foothills part of Awatukee was sold to one of EU s s largest farm equipment manufacturers at the time, International Harvester or IH. And this will be the perfect test track for their heavy tractors and trucks. So they took it from the military and said we'll keep this test track area and we'll use it for our trucks and tractors and everything else. 21:03 So this is actually where the bones of what would become Foothills Golf Course starts to take shape. Is this test track that they had there. Now, before IH went out of business in the 1980s due to high debt and labor strikes, they built a large building to become their sales and administration headquarters. 21:21 Would either of you like to guess what that is today? Go ahead, Austin. It's got to be the clubhouse. The clubhouse. Wow. That's why it's so big, only building around, yeah. 21:38 That's why it's so big. It was their sales and admin HQ basically. For all the cubicles were probably in where the conference or the wedding. Yeah, yeah. So IH also like to wine and dine potential clients from Midwest out on their test track during the winter. 21:55 So they built their own landing strip for airplanes after they went out of business. That airstrip was torn up and the dirt from that was used to make a new community called Foothills and part of the dirt became the hills, the goalies and the other land features for a new planned golf course that was intended to complement this master planned community. 22:15 So the land strip basically was turned into the course and the coarse hills and everything you see came from them tearing up that land strip. That people have, well, now I feel bad for smashing it, for being a really flag golf course. That's what they were. Given. 22:32 Oh my goodness, that's cool. Yeah, so Foothills actually would open as a Golf Club in 1988, designed by Tom Weiskopf and Jay Morrish as a par 72 championship link style course. It would actually earn a number of awards in its early days by magazines such as Golf Digest, and it'll continue to do so as it changed hands throughout the years. 22:51 Eventually, it would be sold to a subsidiary of Enemy Properties in 2022 called AZ Management and Investments, or a ZMI. So AZMI had contracted with Troon Golf, the world's largest golf course builder and management company, to operate Foothills as a quote UN quote, first class facility. 23:10 And now we're going to get into the lawsuit portion. So quote, this is our first golf course acquisition and although slightly outside of our wheelhouse, we love the Awatukee community and surrounding areas, which is why we thought Foothills Golf Club would be a good fit, attorney Michael Enovey said at the time. But even though the clubhouse was renovated with a new lounge called The Bunker that had the golf, soon as we just talked about an upgraded restaurant and expanded pro shop. 23:33 Litigation developed Foothills, making it the third of Awatuki's four courses to be the subject of a court fight. AZMI filed A lawsuit against Troon and its subsidiary Cosaverde Golf and Landscaping after it accused Cosaverde Golf of being responsible for destroyed greens but also improper irrigation work during what was supposed to be an overhaul of the course, but said Troon was not properly supervising the landscape company that it hired to do Casa. 24:01 Verde's work destroyed the greens and substantially damaged the golf course as defined in the Troon contract, the suit alleged. This forced the delay in reopening Foothills and then several closures followed for emergency repairs. It also said the work on the greens was so poor that an immediate avalanche of poor reviews ensued on social media sites related to the golf course. 24:22 Among the exhibits included in the suit are social media comments giving Foothills scathing. One star reviews 1 reviewer wrote were screens I've seen in Phoenix, while another posted every single green is unplayable. Waste of time trying to putt. Was not warned when booked rough. 24:39 Very inconsistent throughout course. Will not be coming back. Not worth $5 let alone $50.00. The suit notes that online reviews can make or break a business, and studies show 87% of consumers regularly read them and almost that many won't make a purchase of any product or service with fewer than three stars. 24:57 Businesses with poor ratings face more than just lost sales, the lawsuit said. They pay higher customer acquisition costs, struggle with visibility and experience long term damage to the reputation. So now you guys understand why there's probably ads running in downtown Chandler and all these other things that had hurt the reputation essentially as what this case is. 25:15 It's the It's the digital equivalent of the Under New management sign hanging out the front door. Yeah. Yeah, in another part of the city too. So I, I was present to this where on a couple Facebook groups I'm on and a few other people I talked to, everyone was sharing photos essentially at that time of like the sand and the greens and stuff at the course. 25:39 And it was, it was tough, but I'm going to pause there because on the lawsuit, because of the best of my knowledge, this lawsuit is still ongoing. However, I am pleased to report that Foothills took the reputation seriously and closed the course in 2025 to fix the greens, oversee the course and turn it back into championship shape. 25:57 Because when we got to play there, it represented I think what the course kind of looked like before all this happened. It was back into itself and the course looked and played like any other course you would expect in the Valley and you could tell the staff was actually eager to make a positive impression like we talked about the top. So I enjoyed my first run back there in a while. 26:14 But how will it stand up to the must play test? We're about to find out. That's good. Yeah, by no means did what what I saw that day deem anything unplayable. Like, no, not at all. Like not even. Close. No, no. And that was the day, The day after opening. 26:31 Too true. So. But that's why we got. Comments on that? Yeah, but there were still so like it's foothills back because like most locals knew everything that was going on and what they were going through. Yeah, I mean, I remember seeing other like a few other Arizona Influencers going out that same weekend being like, hey, I want to go check out Foothills, like. 26:55 As soon as possible. I think butsy swung out there really early to try and get a good impression 'cause I think he's been a guy who's just been around forever and wanted to see it if it was quote UN quote back and he had, he had some of the same sentiments that we did as well. 27:10 But we'll, we'll see how it we'll see how it fares. We'll see. All right. Let's get in the must play test. TJ and I devised an objective test here of 10 questions to determine if a golf course is a must play. The course has to score 6 out of 10 to be up for debate or get a 7 out of 10 or higher to automatically earn our coveted must play status. 27:27 Question one, the Augusta test. Is this course easy to get a tee time on? Does it have a straightforward booking process and are there times available the week of intended play? Austin, would you like to start? Yeah, I'll start. So. I I think as a solo golfer, it's a lot easier to find a tee time at this place. 27:47 But if you're looking to fill a foursome or even 3 people, it might be pretty difficult to find a spot, at least until about 2:00 PM and then some spots start opening up. But as far as early in the day, it's pretty slim out there right now. 28:07 Why do you think that is? Do you? Think it's the reduced rates or do you think it's something else that's reduced rates? Location and there's a little more elevation and it it's a bigger course than a lot of the courses around the valley yeah. 28:23 A lot of the muni feeling courses, whether they're in a muni or not, it's a it's a bigger golf course. So and, and I think people like to feel that when they play and it's a reasonable price too. So but I'm curious to see what the price is going to be in a couple few years once they get their reputation back and the course is very pure so. 28:52 So you are you a fail then on. This, yeah. I rated it A5 myself. Yeah. Oh, you're scoring this out of 10? Yeah, out of 10. We're pass fail on. This So you have to make a choice. Oh my gosh. 29:08 OK, cool. I mean you. Can it's got to be a fail 'cause? You can think it's a fail 'cause if I'm trying to golf with a few buddies and it, that's number one, yeah, yeah. 29:23 TJ, my man over here took notes he just showed me before we started. Hey, man, I mean. I almost always come with like at least a note card because I'm a, I'm an analog guy. I used to do digital And no, I like, I like, I'm an analog guy. And I, I, we, we love, we love a prepared guest, right? 29:42 It's like I know he had he had all the way down to number ratings, like he was ready to use a lot like I I now I'm going to ask the I was. Going to say I want to know what the. Number rating is and and obviously we'll say you know, 5 you can go either way. 66 above is past, four below is failed. 29:59 But I want to know the number ratings for sure too. Awesome. I'll give it to you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I. Did the classic like let me look right now to see if I could book a tee time for this weekend. It's it's Tuesday afternoon and like Austin talked about even looking at like a Tucson, there was like nothing till like 145. 30:19 And I think right now in Arizona 1:45 is pushing it to try and finish all 18. Yeah. So then I was like, oh. Maybe I'll look to see what it's like next weekend. Recording date is tail end. 30:36 I was gonna say you're. Looking at prime time next weekend in Arizona. Is waste management for the for? Whenever this episode comes out, just know that that weekend was also almost remotely unavailable. Shocking, right? 30:54 So I had to look all for 130 bucks. Yeah, I also, I had to look all the way. Out to like Valentine's Day to look at like a Saturday tea time to find some availability. So this is definitely, definitely a fail. I think, I almost think we'd, we should add an asterisk in this test. 31:10 That's, that should like specify that you're not a solo golfer. Like the solo golfing experience is wildly different than two, three or four. Oh yeah, 'cause also. Like as a solo? You can also like call the clubhouse and be like, Hey, can you guys just call me back if anything opens up on like this day or call like the day before and be like, can you guys Get Me Out anytime tomorrow? 31:31 And they'll figure it out. They'll they'll they'll figure out a way to get you on with somebody, right? Anything other than that, Like if you called and you were anywhere between A2 and a foursome and asked for like some tee times to open up, they'd be like kick rocks. Check the website. Yeah, exactly. 31:48 Look elsewhere. Man, we're bugged. Sorry. Yeah. OK, So I have to note here, it's to fail. So it's automatically a fail already. I just wanted to go on the record on this. Arizona being obviously big swings in in like how comfortable the weather is to golf, right in the summer. 32:09 Obviously it's easy to find a team out time out here. I mean, like any courses, right? So because we're all dealing with the same weather, I would evaluate this course against other courses at any point in the year, right? So like in the fall or the spring and not just during Phoenix opener or the winter. 32:25 What is this course like? And it is harder here than it is on other courses, but it's not impossible for like a twosome or foursome. The thing I think that makes this course a little difficult is that locals love it. So like Dobson, for example, is a course that punches above its weight in terms of it's always booked out. 32:45 And then you realize it's because they got leagues. Locals love it. And all the other things that make Dobson, Dobson, right next door, you got Kokopelli. Kokopelli is always available 'cause people just got burned by Kokopelli, they don't like the conditions of the course, and Kokopelli hasn't done what Foothills has done and tried to basically earn back that trust. 33:05 And so I mean, recently, recently, like within the last few months, Kokopelli after overseas is trying, but Foothills is trying harder and they're reducing the rates. And you can just tell that that's appealing to a lot of people, including locals. And I think that's what's making it tough to get on, so which is good. 33:24 So good for him. You're saying in the past it's been a little bit easier to get on? During the warmer months, I'm. I'm interested to see how that'll change at if the course stays in the condition that it stays in too though, yeah. 33:39 If it's going to hold. During the summer, yeah. Yeah, one of the. Reasons I think that and we talk about this, how it's the inverse of the next question about to answer with price, but like, you know, some courses too late in the season when it's like, you know, late May, early June are still charging February rates or or March rates Austin, you know that's living here and it's like, wait, why would I pay 140 plus dollars to go play a course in 105°? 34:09 That's stupid. And then you look at Foothills and it's like hey, you come out here for like 7580 bucks and you're like yeah, that sounds tight and then that's why it's booked. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Which brings us to get into Yeah, so over 1 here on Augusta question. To the bang for your buck, Is this golf course worth the rate you pay? 34:27 Do you feel like this course is good value during peak season and in its current stage? My answer is absolutely like a big pass. For me, yeah, easy. Pass. I scored it in an 8. Yeah, nice. I was. I was going to. Default to you guys on this question anyway, because I think that my my pricing of golf courses is so messed up in my head because of Southern California. 34:52 I'm I'm usually really good about assessing when San Diego courses or like if we're rating like high level courses or like the the big dogs in Arizona. I think I can usually figure out if it's justified or not, but when it comes to like. Low B. 35:10 Maybe high C tier courses like for for Arizona. I'm I'm lost as to whether or not this is worth it, so I'm going to take your guys's word for this. It's not like my word mattered anyway, but it's a pass for me as well, for the record. Easy enough. 35:26 Exactly 1 for two here. Question 3 The Iverson test. Does this course have good practice facilities? Would you spend time warming up or just head for the bar before the round? We talked about practice, so. Not a. Game. Practice. Go ahead. For me. 35:45 I. I found myself wanting to go to the bar first. I took that. Route man with that small practice green down by the the lunch stop at the bottom there and the range is kind of like tucked away a little bit and hidden. 36:03 It wasn't like asking to go be hit off and I just I I still out of three rounds have not hit off that range. Wow, T. JTJI know is swinging the other way 'cause he got there early. Loved the range he was talking about. 36:20 I'm a. I'm a pass on this. I understand where Austin is coming from because from the clubhouse you also really can't see the range. So you're like, oh, there's no way this could be like a good range, or you're thinking like maybe it's a long drive away from where everything is. 36:43 It's down. Being so, feel. Like you've. Committed to the. Course, by the time you get done, that's also. True. Because yeah, you've lost your opportunity to go back up to the car. I mean, I think I had to drive back up to get you and I was like like this sucks. They do have a bar down there too like you said. 37:04 That one spot they serve drinks, they do. They get here's where they get points from me. Stand alone chipping green. They have two. Putting greens, one of which is conveniently located right next to the first tee, which is always a bonus that you're not having to You can see what's going on on the first tee and know if you're appropriately slotted. 37:25 The range is good, like they, if I recall they didn't, they used to not have grass on the range that you hit into, but that necessarily doesn't matter 'cause I'm hitting off of mats anyway. So like I could see the other thing is that there's a ton of elevation change on the range as well. 37:46 So you're hitting down at targets the whole time. It reminds me of Balboa, Sean, because there it comes down and then it starts to come back up again. So like you're not necessarily getting a true feel for like what your numbers could look like that day. 38:02 It's more of just like a is this going straight or not? Yeah. So it's a pass because it checks all the boxes that I that I needed to check. And like I said, I got there early. I was not mad about the time that I spent down there, but I could see why someone like Austin would be like, yeah, I'm just gonna stay up here by the bar and then I'll just bomb down the hill 15 minutes before my tee time. 38:27 Exactly. Yeah, of what? Number. Did you give this one? I'm curious. A4. A4 Oh, OK, right on. The cusp there on the field, yeah, yeah, it was OK. So I agree with about the bar comment in terms of like, yeah, you're going all the way down there, you're committing. 38:46 And so like you might want to stay up there if you're running close to time and you're like, well, if I go all the way down there, I'm already down there. So like it's not too far to the T from where I'm at, but it's so separate that it feels odd. My only feedback though is that if the other option is we're head for the bar before the round, I don't like the bar here as much. 39:08 Unless you're going into the SIM bar bar which is like deep into the building and then also feels like the post round bar. It's not the bar you go to get something before your round. Exactly, you just passed it on the way in. Why would you go to that one when you pass the the bar bar which that little bar looks like a? 39:25 Cafe almost. It's like it's kind of an odd Do I? Check in here or yeah. I feel like if you get too many. People like in that line, like there's a world in which you just forgo getting a cocktail at all because like, it's at the front where you walk into the actual restaurant. 39:40 And I'm sure that line, like, weirdly can wrap around or it's coming out the door and you're like, you know what? I don't even feel that bad. Yeah. And I actually something tells me I did. That maybe not when we played. I think maybe when I played the tournament recently during the holidays, I may have done that when I went to get a drink and it was kind of like backed up and I was like, I'm good, this is too tight. 40:06 Yeah. And so because of that, I tend, I'm thinking about like the times I've played here, I tend to go warm up here instead of the bar because I'm not a fan of the bar. So then I'm like, all right, I guess I'll warm up. And then I do like the range. I do like the chipping green. I'm not a huge fan of that putting green right there, but there's that bar right next to it. 40:25 So then I wind up getting a beer or canned something before I go tee off. So I do wind up practicing here. And so I think it's a pass for me because of that. There we go, There we go. Cool. All right, so 22 for three question. 40:40 For the Jonesy test, could you see yourself spending $100 on Merchander Pro Shop? Do they have a logo or peril worth wearing? TJ go ahead, leave us off. Absolutely. Not. I mean first. And foremost, I know that they were just coming back from overseeding and they're going through this process of reopening and they're under new management. 41:04 But the pro shop was extremely barren. And there really wasn't anything that like jumped out to me that wasn't the like templated collection that the manufacturers sell into like every pro shop where it's like, oh, if I play a lot of golf in like a season across my state, I see the same hat that just says Foothills and then it says Camelback and then it says Silverado. 41:36 And it's like, it's the same Travis Matthew hat across the board. And they just custom make them for all the courses. Not even like they don't do like the logo on the side. They'll they'll custom do the lettering for it. And then also arguably one of the more boring uses of large letter hats that just said the hills. 41:57 Shout out to Joe Cashmere Golf Club on Instagram for admonishing them for not using the foot. I was like, you'd probably actually sell more hats if you use the foot. Over the hills. 42:12 Yeah, the hills. Reminds me of like, Laguna. Like that's a whole different thing. I want the foot. Yeah, no, the I think. I think the foot would actually kind of RIP, probably too bright. And to piggyback off of that, the logo is not anything to fawn home about. 42:30 I think I do have ball marker here. We can pull her up. Let's see here. This is always fun to do backwards. Yeah. So you can see it's it's like a, it's like a Teemu PGA West. 42:49 I mean. It's it's got 3. Hills, it's got a sun there like it's, but it doesn't, yeah. It lacks the creativity of a PGAW that gives you that that rustic look. It's very, it's very, it's a very broad stroke at a logo. Nothing's, nothing's too special about it. 43:06 So it's a obviously a fail. Yeah. Awesome. It could literally be any golf. Courses. It could be any golf course. In Arizona, you are not wrong. Yeah, Andy. Yeah. Sean, I'm a fail too. Yeah, I'm a fail. 43:22 Yeah, awesome. You fail. Oh yeah, by a long shot. Yeah, sorry, I didn't really put my two cents in, but yeah, there's really not much to talk about. Yeah, as far as the Jonesy test man, there's there wasn't much in there. There was a chair with ATVI, think 2-3 racks of clothing. 43:41 One was a sail rack, some racks on the walls with shirts and hats and stuff but nothing. Nothing stood out. And nothing like no section was jam packed full of like, awesome stuff. There was. Yeah, there's nothing special about it. 43:57 They did have a putting green inside the clubhouse which was what number did you put it at? 3. Generous. Generous, yeah. Generous. Yeah, Honestly. All right. 2 for four here. 44:14 Question 5 The buzzworthy test. Are there multiple holes worth talking about? Does this course have more than one hole that a group would want to immediately go play again? If you guys don't mind, can I kick this one off? OK. The part three comment I made earlier was because I was going through this test and I was like, I can't remember any of these par threes. 44:34 What what are the holes that I really like And I went back and I was like 8 definitely comes to mind. I would play that hole differently. Plus I think I the scold one left into the desert on that hole for sure, but the the other hole that like theoretically I want back, but is it buzz worthy? 44:53 Is that long straight boring one that TJ birdie? Do you remember the birdie hole that TJ had when we played? Oh my goodness, he's like. 11 I. Mean I mean I. Do 'cause we got in a fight over it, yeah. 45:10 And I, and I think that's why I want it back, 'cause I was mad. I was like, he ruined this hole for me. It kind. Of it kind of shot to the southwest, right, Like, yeah, yes, OK. Yes. Yeah, I want that hole back, but it wasn't. Because of the hole. 45:25 It was because of TJ. You were thinking like you were like you were. Trending in the wrong direction. And then I got a birdie and proceeded to celebrate the hell out of a birdie. And you did not love me celebrating the birdie when you were. It was just two guys going in different directions who for a temporary moment were just not meshing at all. 45:50 But the hole isn't like anything to really speak. No, I hit AI hit a. Ball towards the right, I put it in a shrub and I hit a good punch shot and probably made a 40 foot putt for birdie. Like it was not like, yeah, TJ played this hole really well. It was like TJ didn't absolutely abolish this hole and he made an insanely long putt for birdie. 46:12 So yeah, so I think there's only really one hole that's somewhat buzzworthy, and I'm a fail for this one personally. Austin, OK. Let's let's hear the number. I had I I put down. To two man put it down to. 2. 46:28 One and eight, just those shared green holes, man. One and eight, those are the only two that stuck out to me. Yeah, 1 is beautiful, coming down a kind of over that Crest of the fairway and then it kind of opens up to the green. You see everything, your approach, it's really pretty. 46:46 And then kind of the same with eight coming from the other side and then you have the buildings rather than houses in the background, which is nice. But other than that, the a lot of the holes were kind of similar. Slight dog like rights. Like I said, it's it's nice because it's forgiving for once. 47:06 But yeah, yeah, it's pretty straightforward. Yeah. Yeah. I'm. I'm a fail. As well, there's nothing that there's nothing that jumps out to me sometimes when I think about this test. I would say what what would the photos on the website highlight? 47:23 And and I think it would be a shot down one or maybe a shot coming down 8 that shows that there's another hole behind it. And that one and eight is like A2 tiered, almost shared green, like massive, yeah. 47:39 Massive green but I don't. Think that there's anywhere else where I looked and I was like, oh, that's absolutely picturesque. We need to. We need to do that on the website, Yeah. Agreed, which is a. Little unfortunate being on the foothills of a mountain for sure. 47:57 And like, realistically. Like beyond that golf course, there's probably just a ton of like open area. Like it probably, like like you said from the clubhouse, it probably has some great views at sunset 'cause you can just see how you get the 2O2 there and there's not much else out there. 48:14 No, there's an ugly freeway wall, unfortunately, which is pretty big wall that just blocks it. But if you look past that, you have nothing because you're just looking at the Gila River Indian Reservation after that. So it's just like nothing going out all the way to the straight mountains, which is really cool. 48:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, So 2 for five, Question 6, the glizzy test. Does this course have good food at the turn? Are you eating here or packing your own snacks? I did highlight this as one of my pros at the top. I'm a pass on this one. 48:46 I I thought it was a good dog. It came out quick. The one guy working it was hustling and getting orders from the girl who was working the shack. It had like a all the markings of a good operation. I do remember Austin, this is my first time meeting you and I asked you after this. 49:01 I was like, are you worried about slower play because you didn't order anything? And, like, we had a group on us most of that time. And so I was a little nervous about, oh, I might, like, irk him or rub him the wrong way if it takes forever to get a dog. And it came out really quick. 49:17 And I was like, oh, hell yeah. And I just met up with you at the tee on tent. Keep on moving. Yeah. He was quick, he was, he was very. Quick, I understand why golf courses don't want to do the idea of of fresh dogs I I I. 49:34 Still think that the. Japanese are doing it right on picking a second tee time at the turn I. The golf course out here. Is going to commit to it hard and they're probably going to get they're probably going to actually get a lot of praise for it because they'll probably figure out how to run it right and you'll start to see it more. 49:52 But until then, I mean, you just, you can't get everybody to stop for a dog, right? Like, but if you're going to do it, you got to do it fast. And they did. And then on top of that, it was good. Like it wasn't, it was good. You threw the onions. 50:08 And Peppers and everything on a flat top and like, it was for sure, yeah, I'm a, I'm a pass. As well on this guy, OK. I originally had a lower number, but you guys are like like kind of convincing me the other way a little bit because of the sausages and hot dogs. 50:27 Did they just have hot dogs when we were there or did they have brats too? I have a burger too. I. Think I I think you got. A hot dog and I think I got a brat, Sean. Yeah, yeah, I got. A brat as well. I think so, yeah, that that definitely raised my number. 50:43 I'm going to still have to say A5 and a pass because it is so convenient at at the turn and it just as a brat is so much better than a hot dog. Bro, you cannot be. Oh, I agree. I agree. I'm a brat guy also. 50:59 Yeah, I think I but I got a brat. Hold on, are you going to talk about a brat and a hot dog? Because my point's different than that. So I want to, I want to let you finish. No. No, no, Austin, what's your point? Austin looked like he had a point about it. I, I, I was. 51:14 Going to touch on the restaurant up top. Oh, that's kind of just oh, OK, cool. When we cut, when we talk about. Vibes tests we definitely cut yeah, but. I will say a bonus point for this one very conveniently located like is right after 9 on the way to 10. 51:35 Don't even have to do like a little bit of a detour to get to it or anything or be like, oh, where's the snack shack at? Or, you know, it's it's literally right there. You you drive past the guy on the grill first. Which also is a humongous selling point. Will probably almost always make me want to order a hot dog or a bride and I just smell it. 51:53 Just driving by. Yeah, so. All right. When we get. To vibe sess also I'm going to call on you first for the restaurant because I I think I know what you're going to say about that one so. OK, unless you want. To talk about. It now so I I don't. 52:08 Know if it's fair to the other contestants to not have the main restaurant included in your options. I know I don't actually, I don't know if you can order from up top and have them bring it down to you or whatever, but most courses have a a bigger menu to choose from at the turn. 52:33 While this we're we're going to give it a higher rating based off just a brat or a hot dog when I feel like there's a bigger menu up top, but to that's where touching base on that menu comes in later because I don't think it's big enough. 52:53 Yeah, that question. That question gets layered in with vibe tests where we talk about food on the way home versus eating at the course. So cool. All right, we're 3 for six here, so it's doing all right. Question 7, The Marshall Test. 53:09 Does this course have a decent pace of play? Can you rely on a relatively quick round here? If you have somewhere to be after, I'll go here first. I had down in my notes as a pro that I have had relatively standard rounds here. 53:25 I wouldn't say quick, but I'd say standard. I haven't like had any long rounds here. I know exactly what it's going to be. It's usually between 4 and 4 1/2 hours every time, and it's not too far from where I am at. So it is a course I choose when I'm like, yeah, you know, if I had to be back in time, I can count on this being somewhere in time. 53:44 So I'm passing it personally. Curious what you put on the score. Here, Austin, I put an 8. So definitely a pass. Yeah, I, I can't recall a time where I was like, this is this is pretty bad right now. 54:00 It's always flowed really smooth, I think, and I think that's a testament to how. Straightforward and forgiving. The courses, I don't want to say easy, it's not an easy course by any means, but it's pretty straightforward and forgiving, so yeah, but I. 54:21 Think that's. Why harder courses? You're going to get backed up more. People are looking for the ball more often. And so this is, you see what you get, Yeah. Or you get yeah, I knew our day. Wasn't particularly slow nor fast. 54:38 It was about what I would expect. I don't think we ever got really jammed up behind anyone else or we never really had anyone on our heels. Like it felt appropriately paced. And then sometimes, you know, a lot of times I only play a course once, especially when we're doing Arizona courses. 54:54 So I I did the quick check on on golf now and peruse threw a handful of of reviews and I saw most of them were either average to to excellent. No, I didn't see any like pores or bads when it came to people and their pace of play reviews. 55:11 So just just as a good second, like gut check that it like I didn't have a one off day or, you know, sometimes we'll play on like a Thursday and I'm like, well, yeah, of course it was slow on a Thursday or whatever, right. Like, but what does it look like on a Saturday or what does the general public say? So I was a pass on this as well. 55:27 Cool. Yeah, big pass, big pass. All right, 4 for seven. So it's got to pass two more questions to be out for debate here. Question 8, the high handicapper test. Would a mid to high handicapper enjoy this course and typical conditions? Is it fair to all handicaps and are the greens or pin positions fair? 55:46 Austin, you called this out as one of the courses that might be better for mid to high handicappers, I think, right? Yes, Sir, sure thing. I scored an 8 on this. It. It's a big course. Feel it. It feels like I said it. It's an experience and it has potential to be more of an experience, but as far as feeling like a big course, it has it, but it it's. 56:11 It's not. Target golf, you don't have, you know, super hard blowing winds all the time. You don't have water all over the place. It's yeah. Yeah, as the. 56:26 As the podcast's resident high handicapper, there was no times where I stood on like a tea box here and felt super daunting over over like a / a driver or even on like even on the par three's. I felt like a lot of the holes, at least par three's had a lot of fairway or rough that ran up towards the green. 56:48 So that's always someone fighting on being like OK, if we like chunk one or don't hit one pretty good, like it's not going to land in like desert and then we have to figure out what to do from there. Right or the yeah, the fairways felt pretty big. 57:04 Like I said, never nothing ever felt like oh, I got I really got to think about what I wanted hit here. I felt pretty comfortable taking driver off the team most of the day. That mean I hit driver well that day? No. Did I still keep pulling the driver out as I went through the round because they felt inviting? 57:19 Yes. So yeah. Yeah. I they're. Not tree lined. No, not that's another big like we talked. About there's a little bit of room OB between like where the court where where like your cart path and where your rough is and then where the houses actually start. 57:35 So a lot of those balls tend to just be dead. You're not going to find them or you know, I see people, you see people clamor where it's like, oh, they need to clean up OB. We can't even like find our balls. And it's like, brother, it's it's like OB like it's not. 57:50 You're not supposed to find your. Ball in the desert. Like that's like in one of them ball here like so, yeah. It's a pass. For me, I think, and as of right now, none of the the greens were a little firm. So balls didn't necessarily like hold, but I felt like the greens, although not in the best condition, still rolled pretty true. 58:12 Nothing felt too like wonky. I didn't feel like I had to like, throw a ball 15 feet out to get it to bend back in or anything like that, no. Funny enough, the two holes that are probably the hardest ones are the ones that we talked about being memorable, which is one in eight, one in eight because of that water. 58:29 Yeah. On the side of the green. Yeah. You know, everything else, though, is pretty, pretty standard. And I I agree with you guys. I'm a pass on this one for sure. Hell yeah. Cool. OK, 5 for eight question 9 the vibes test. Is this course worth staying at post round? 58:46 Do they have a good restaurant or patio scene? This is going to be interesting. I want to see where we fit in this bunker bar. Now they have I'm passing this. It's a pass for sure. It's a great vibe. I, I, I gave it a six. It has so much more potential than where they're sitting right now, which is OK. 59:06 They're getting back on their feet. I think a couple more years they'll have a hopefully a better food menu. And I can't, I shouldn't say better, but bigger, more options, a bigger menu for food. The bunker is super cool. 59:28 What else? The outside. Patio is beautiful I just wish there was more grass around the the clubhouse and restaurant area up top so people can practice chipping and walk around and mingle and enjoy it not have to go down the hill to to play golf. 59:46 They I agree there's. No like hub of activity. Happening outside the clubhouse they probably crush. If they could fit in like a nine hole mini golf up there, like what Dobson's done. Oh yeah, Oh my. Goodness that. Would be phenomenal. It would crush up there. Yeah, yeah, the for those who have not played Foothills before, the bunker is like an indoor double I. 1:00:10 Is it double sided? Can you sit on both sides of the bar? There's seats on the. Outside or is it just open? Yes, there was. Yeah, I think so. There was seats on the outside, seats on the. Inside bar and then there's like high top tables and then there was 2 simulators so for some. 1:00:27 Reason. After you've played eighteen holes, if that's not enough, you can go play more simulator golf or I mean, obviously I'm sure it's open at night. It's a great option for the evenings, Friday, Saturday night, whatever, boys. Or you know, if you need to settle a quick bet, like I'm sure you could be like, Hey, we just want it for an hour. 1:00:45 Let's let's play. Some closest pin. And settle some bets. Yeah, I was. Going to say settling. Bets and then like Mike, who my neighbor, he is king of the hey, my wife, you know, she gave me the day like I don't have to be home right now, you know, and so then it's like, OK, well, what are we going to do? 1:01:05 And like Sims, perfect. You know, we're going to go play, we're going to spin up Pebble or do something like that. Nice. Yeah. I I. Knocked the patio here. I was like, I just don't think I'd hang out up there outside, but like that bunker, I would. I would definitely go to that bar, have a beer afterwards or do something right there. 1:01:25 It's just outside. I wasn't like, well, the interesting. Part about where all those chairs are for the patio is that it feels really like, I think disjointed from the restaurant because I think the entrance and exit for the restaurant are on the sides and then you have to fully go like out to the patio. 1:01:43 So it doesn't feel like it's like actually part of the restaurant. It just feels like they put chairs outside. It feels like you're drinking in. Front of the pro shop, yes. Most likely, yeah. It's not like it's a, it's not like it's a roll up or anything, or it's not like it's a super enclosed patio that has like its own area. 1:02:01 It's like, yeah, it's just kind of like an offshoot of like with space for chairs and people want to sit out here after they got a cocktail, but it's not necessarily like a patio. Sorry, are you a pass TJ? I am a pass I think. I mean, I, I do, I do think that that patio is probably great to also catch like a sunset after a round. 1:02:18 Like if, if I was playing a twilight round and we got back and I was and I had to make the choice between like having a beer with the boys or driving home in the dark, like I'm going to definitely have a beer with the boys. And you can't beat like the the bunker bar is such a cool idea especially. 1:02:35 If you've allotted. Six or seven hours and you say, hey, we're we're probably going to sit here and have a quick bite to eat. My wife, if she's listening to this, it's fine. But but like, you know, you do that like I've got that hour buffer after a round of golf to grab a beer with the boys or do whatever. 1:02:57 So if we managed to sneak in an hour worth of same time while eating and having said beers, you know no love lost. It's welcomed. Yeah, I'll. Take that, sometimes I use that hour. 1:03:12 Instead of going to the bar and just swinging by Taco Bell and I'm just going to have a cheat meal right now before I go home. Just somehow also major. Pro tip, if you buffer out that hour and then you don't do anything and you just go home. 1:03:28 Rockstar. Yeah. Rockstar I. Mean. Buys you 2. Hours next. Time come home and like shower. And then lay on the couch immediately and just ignore everything else. No, no. Can't do that with kid. Hilarious did. We lose Sean. 1:03:45 Sean, are you frozen? No, I'm here. You were frozen. For a second. Yeah, it's all right. It's it'll look fine. All good. All right, so we are 6 for 9:00 so it is up for debate. We'll see if it gets a 7 here Question 10 the dime a dozen test. Is this course unique to the area? Could you get this golf experience somewhere else on your trip or visit? 1:04:04 Let me start here. I'm a fail and This is why is it unique to Abatuki? Sure is Abatuki, no Awatuke is an afterthought to me. 1:04:20 Foothills is probably the only reason I'd ever want to be in Awatukee or go to Awatukee. And there is not enough pull for me to say you got to go play Foothills if you're in town. Like it's not it's it's not. It is. It is part of the dozen that gets ignored for me in terms of valley courses. 1:04:40 Unfortunately, it's just not. It's not doesn't shine enough, especially when you could go turn South on the on the 10 and take someone to whirlwind and be like, hey, we're going to go play Cattail of Devil's Claw or we're going to go play Ocotillo or somewhere else down there rather. 1:04:58 Than. Foothills, I would probably pick one of those O2 courses first. So yeah, for me this isn't something they have to have on their trip visit. I'm a fail. Austin, I'd like to. Hear I'd like to hear the number rating please. I actually don't have a. 1:05:14 Number I have a penny. Dime. A dozen I I. Wrote Penny for one. Yeah, yeah, fairly straightforward. Nothing really makes me want to go back, even though I would play it again. Don't get me wrong, It's not if you get invited and you're like. 1:05:32 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I'm not solo, you know, entering the weekend as a solo golfer going. I want to go to Foothills for sure, right? For for. Like a 50 minute drive, you know what I mean? Especially coming. 1:05:48 From where you're coming? Yeah, yeah. Austin's a but a Northwest Valley guy. Yes, Sir. Yeah. Yes, Sir. So it's it's, it's a track for. Sure. Funny, the the statement that you brought in to start with, Sean is very close to like not what I have written down, but I wrote like debatable based upon area. 1:06:10 Like I thought the same thing where I was like if we're talking Awatuki or foothills, yes, it stands out on its own right. But I was like, but if you're looking in like the greater scheme of even like Southern Phoenix golf courses or even starting to work into like even if you open it up, even just like a little bit more up into like South Mountain and stuff like that. 1:06:32 Like there's yeah, go play Raven on. The other side of that, that was my thought as well as I. Was like, I'd rather stay on the other side of the mountain and play Raven. Yeah. So yeah, I was like, I was like, I think it's debatable. But yeah, knowing how you guys also felt about this, no, my debatable meant that I probably wanted to fail it, but I didn't want to necessarily say it outright. 1:06:53 So I will also fail it, which puts us if we were. Going to compare it to if we were going to compare it to Raven though, Raven gets up over 300 bucks I think this time of year if I'm not mistaken. So that's, you know, double the price. 1:07:08 Yeah, I'm sure if you're which. Is outrageous, I'm sure. If you're people who are local. Like that's probably the other thing right now too is right? Like guys who live around there are probably constantly choosing to play Foothills during peak season versus Raven just due to the 2X price that you're looking at for a golf round. 1:07:24 Exactly. Yep. And we get no. Grief we get no no, no forgiveness from no Phoenix, we just pass or. Nothing. It hurts. It's Yeah, you have. To spend money to to get it. Yeah, damn that, damn that. 1:07:40 COVID really ruined everything. All right, so we're 6. For 10 is officially up for debate here now. So Austin, on this part, since it's, you know, theoretically it could go either way. 1:07:58 This is hard because we just did a 10 question test. So it's hard to say single out here's the reason why it passes or fails. So more so for me, I always think of this as like a OK, zoom out and just clear your mind for a second and think about whether or not you're telling someone visiting Arizona or Phoenix, do they really need to go make a trip to blank? 1:08:20 Is this one of the courses in the rotation per must play? And so when I think that way, I'll just start here with that. It's a fail for me. It's not one of the must play courses for me because there are so many options out here. It was inevitable for TJ and I picking Arizona and Phoenix as like courses we're going to be reviewing. 1:08:37 It's like theoretically there's over 100 out here. So how many must plays are there and how do you fit them all in there? And so like, what's the cap on the number of must plays we have? I've tried not to think about that way in terms of like, let's just go by the letter of the law and follow the 10 question rubric and whatever it scores, it scores. 1:08:55 But when it gets a six, then I feel like it's fair for me to pull in that argument because now I'm trying to think about this as like a recommendation if it scored a six. And that's why it's not for me. It's not a course that absolutely someone's going to be like that's unique. That's that's a crazy experience for me. 1:09:12 Like I'll remember this course when I think of Phoenix. Like for me, it's not that. Yep. And I respect that and I. Agree with that as well. If someone's looking for hopefully a quick round before they're heading out of town because it's close to the airport, Freaking awesome. 1:09:30 That might be your spot. But yeah, I'm not going to recommend someone going there on their Saturday boys around like I'll, I'll send you northeast or northwest. Well, and the other thing too. Is like if, if one of these questions is really important to someone. 1:09:47 So for example, the bang for your buck test, if like someone's all about price, then this is where you might say, actually Foothills might make the short list of courses I go tell you to play because if it really matters to you that much, this is probably one of the best values that you'll get exactly. So for some people, this. 1:10:03 Could make it right. So I'll let TJ go here in a second. But as we always say, even if a course doesn't pass our must play test, we always tell people to go make your own decision or rating because something else might be most important to you and it might have passed that question essentially on the test. Yeah. 1:10:19 So the tough part with the must play. Test is that everything's weighted equally right? Everything is a pass on one test is just as much as. Important. As a pass on another test. And it was funny, just coming off of the PGA show last week, I had an opportunity to talk to a handful of people about this. 1:10:35 And I remember I was talking to a guy about Chambers Bay and he was like, well, what did you guys rate Chambers Bay? And I said, oh, we gave it a 7 out of 10 and he was like a 7 out of 10 for Chambers Bay. Like he was, he was literally floored that we rated Chambers Bay a 7 out of 10. And I was like, well, hold on here, like let's talk about this because like I said, if you fail 3, all you do is fail three questions like it's and I was like, it's tough for handicappers. 1:11:01 You don't necessarily want to hang out at the bar after. And and I was like the turn stand stunk when we played it. I think they've updated the turn stand since then. Either way, it's. Very quick. On how quickly this scale can jump up or down for a course because because of how? 1:11:18 Transparent in black and white. It is. So, yeah, like you said, some of those factors might jump out for somebody. Like if you have a boys trip and you want to go somewhere that is affordable and then maybe you want to rent out ball Sims with the boys and that's how you want to close out a Friday night, that could be the move for you. 1:11:37 What I'm thinking is that you're. Probably staying somewhere in Scottsdale or Paradise Valley and this is going to be pretty off the beaten path for where you're going to want to go. You're not going to. Want to make when you? You're in the middle. 1:11:53 Of golf Mecca of Arizona 100% Yeah, right. Like. There's no reason for you to go. No, I mean we managed. To swing this one in because a Sean said, hey, they just reopened and I've always wanted this course to succeed. So let's let's put it to the test. And then for me, it's a nice little quicker way out of town to go out through Maricopa to get back to San Diego because I left right after our round and drove home immediately, which it seems to be a. 1:12:18 Recurring trend for. Me when we play golf courses in Southern. Yeah, you did that in Southern Dunes. Too, didn't you? But yeah. I think for me it's a it's a fail in terms of making it a must play. It's definitely a very firm should play like it's a it's a hard 6 for me. 1:12:37 Like I said, the off the course course adjacent amenities are all there, but they, they, I, I don't think they can do much to fix the like they can't fix the buzzworthy test, right? No, not. 1:12:54 Not unless there's. A major renovation, yeah. They can't fix their logo though, yeah. They can fix their logo. They can't make the logo hats and really swing that thing around. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, let's wrap it up here. So it's. 1:13:09 Officially a six out of 10 not a must play, but we're calling it a very firm should play yeah if you. Have extra time if you're a solo golfer, your boys had to go home from the trip early and you're out here by yourself and you want to get around and, yeah, go for it. 1:13:29 Yeah. Agreed. You, you won't, you won't be disappointed. Yeah. Not by any means, Austin, thank you for joining. I honestly, I wanna get out and play with you again. I know you probably have some other good courses coming up. 1:13:44 Are you planning on going to the Phoenix Open at all? I. Don't have plans to actually, no. OK. I didn't go. Last year or I'm probably not gonna go this year too. It's tough. It's a good time to avoid. Golf, if you're just not going to put it, put up the money one way or the other and that's the thing, not that I. 1:14:02 Don't want to, but the the price that they want for tickets now, it's just like just you're around a bunch of obnoxiously drunk people. It's I'm good. I'll pass on that. I'm just not that that type of person. And usually when I do go, I'm walking the course where it's a little more calm. 1:14:23 So yeah, I know you take trips up. To the Parker. And have you seen other parts of the desert? You got anything coming up? I actually no, I don't. Right now, no. What's what's? What's your number? One white whale on Arizona courses right now. White whale which? 1:14:41 One, of course, you haven't played that you haven't played before. Oh. That's a great question, yeah. Mine's a. Private course it's. 7 canyons, the one that you guys played, I really sorry. 1:15:00 Bro I don't blame. You I. Don't blame you, it's honestly my favorite course so I would love to play. Where we had the bad birdie. Shoot, no, it's up in North Scott or it's. 1:15:19 Up in Northern Arizona, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In flag. Yeah, it's in Flagstaff. Just South of Flagstaff, right off Lake Mary Rd. Private or public? Private. Are you talking about Pine Canyon? 1:15:35 Yeah, Pine Canyon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't get to play the whole. Course, and we tried, but it didn't end up working out. But my goodness was that place beautiful man. Yeah, and we got to. Hit some balls around. 1:15:50 It and play the 19th hole, but we didn't we didn't get to play all 18-O. Yeah, yeah, Forest Highlands and Pine Canyon both look immense, but I would love to Yeah, I. Heard the community of Pine Canyon is so much better than Forest Highlands, but Forest Highlands of course is a little nicer. 1:16:11 Yeah, Pine. Canyon, you can't beat the experience that we had there was just. Out of this world. Yeah, out of this world. Yeah. Any place that has a full serviced bar in the men's locker room is. 1:16:29 Pretty, pretty wild. Something I didn't. Know I wanted, but now, yeah. Yeah, whole. Bartender and everything right in the men's locker room. It was pretty crazy. That's cool all. Right, well, thank you again for coming on for everyone who's stuck around the entire episode. 1:16:47 If you don't already, please make sure to subscribe to Must Play wherever you get your podcasts. Rate is five stars. It does a lot to help us out. You can also watch these over on YouTube by searching for fair wagers. And Austin, again, thank you for your time and let's get out there again soon. Of course, Vince. 1:17:03 We'll talk soon. And Sean, yeah, let's play like very soon. TJ, when are you going to be back out of your next? I'll technically be there. Next week, but I have no time to do anything. Apologies I. Want to try? And make a swing in March though, but I know Sean's coming this way in March, so I got to figure out dates with that. 1:17:18 But we got some courses we we need to cross off here real soon. So I'm hoping that we'll get out there and we'll catch you around I. Was waiting to send it off. Thank you guys. We'll catch you around. 1:17:36 Thank you. See ya.