0:10 Hey, listeners, we got a great bonus round for you today. We're not covering a course, however. We're talking to Doctor Nima and Ayadi, a physical therapist here in San Diego. He's going to help walk through exercises, mobility, stretching, all the things that we should be doing during the offseason. Although this is prime season here in Arizona and we're going to be covering concepts that might be a little foreign to some. 0:29 I am not an expert in any of these things, so I ask a lot of please explain like I'm 5 questions while TJ, he does know a little bit more about this. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoy and let us know what you think. All right, guys, no course review, no course preview today. Today is a bonus round. 0:44 We have Nima, any Adi on to talk about three things every golfer should be doing in the offseason. Nima welcome, how you doing? I'm good TJ, good. Thanks for having me guys. I, I appreciate it. I know we've been kind of back and forth chatting about this for a while. 1:00 So it was due and I'm glad to be on with you guys. Most definitely. And it's, it's the perfect time of the year. We're recording this. It's it's late November for a lot of the parts of the country. It's starting to be the quote UN quote offseason. 1:17 Me and you as Southern Californian nurse San Diegites, we are blessed to have year round golf also. San Diegites. Sand Eagans, is that Sand Eagans? Come on. Sure. Either way we've all the three of us on here all have year round golf. 1:35 But I don't think that anything that we wouldn't cover today isn't going to be applicable and should probably be things that all of us should be doing probably year round, right? Absolutely. I know we're going to get into this a little bit later, but for sure everybody should be taking care of their bodies, especially when it comes to golf because it's such an awkward one sided motion. 1:57 So yeah, I won't get into it too much now because I know we're going to. Dive in, but yeah. No spoilers, no spoilers, spoilers. So let's let's give him a little bit of a frame of reference to everybody at home who's probably not familiar with you. Who are you? What do you do? Give us, you know, drop all the cool certifications on. 2:15 Us wow us a little bit here sure. So I am a doctor of physical therapy. So I I got my physical therapy degree in 2017. So I don't know how many years 8 plus years 8. Years ago. Gosh. Man, that's quick math that flew by. 2:34 I started pretty much only working with golfers after working with basically the athletic population. Active adult weekend warrior. I I figured I'd kinda work my own passion of golf into helping other people play for as long as they possibly can as well as they possibly can. 2:58 And it's opened up a lot of really, really cool opportunities. So one of them being that I just recently completed my TPI Level 3 medical certification, which is kind of the highest you can go for medical. They have a bunch of different tracks. That's for the, for the, for the listeners at home who might not be familiar, that's Titleist Performance Institute, correct? 3:18 Yep, you got it. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool in Oceanside. So we're again, being San Diegoites lucky to have the Titleist Performance Institute up in Oceanside. So they have a whole experience and all kinds of stuff, but then they teach their courses at that place. 3:39 And, you know, Greg Rose is considered like the guru of golf, you could say, from the medical side. And he's gotten an opportunity to work not only with golfers, but NFL athletes, MLB Olympic teams across the world. 3:55 So it was a really cool experience being there and learning and just adding another tool to my toolbox, essentially. But yeah, I don't have any more cool credentials. That's that's kind of it. Just. I mean TPISTPIS pretty cool. 4:11 Also not to put you on the spot here, but let's you talked about layering in the passion of golf. Current handicap index to either hopefully only validate you to the listeners at home. Yeah, you can. You can look it up. You know, I I always say so right now I'm playing off of 5 1/2, but I always say I can easily show up and play as a 25 1/2. 4:34 So who knows man? It's. I mean, can't we all this damn game? Everyone who always asks handicap doesn't understand that. So not you shooting that score every time you go out that for that. Round no, I understand how. Handicap works. No, I know you do. But I'm playing a lot of people who ask. 4:51 They're like, you should be shooting 5 over. You're like, that's my best day. Come on. Yeah. You're like, it is not my average. It is. It is what I'm capable of doing. I have a question, do you ever find yourself forgetting to take your own medicine and what we're going to be talking about later in the episode? 5:08 You know what I will say I pride myself on practicing what I preach. So I try to be very good about, you know, at least taking care of myself so I know whether I'm trying something new or I've got my own routine. 5:24 But yeah, man, we have our own slip UPS, you know, and and we're human. We're all human. Yeah, you just, sometimes you're too tired. But I, I do say that or I will say that five times out of the week. It's a guarantee. I'm doing my mobility routine at night so that I can promise. 5:41 OK, OK, cool. Sean, I would have, I wish you would have saved that one to the end to not invalidate our guest before we get into all of his tapes doing. It five times a week that validates. It I'm kidding. I'm kidding. And then before we dive in, Nima, you talked about making sure that people get screened and knowing that what we're going to cover today is probably at least a loose guideline of what some people should be doing. 6:06 But you talked about the importance of actually being screened by PT. Can you can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah. So I mean, to make it really simple, I think there are a lot of different practitioners out there, right? So you have your obviously your doctors, you've got your acupuncturists, you've got your chiropractors, you've got your physical therapists. 6:27 And I'm probably forgetting some. But ultimately as PTS, we consider ourselves kind of movement experts to varying degrees. And I think when it comes to getting a screen done, I think what what TPI offers, which is really cool, is a way to not only screen through the level 1 screen, which is kind of a very baseline screen that not only you as a practitioner can do, but the golf coach can do. 6:56 Or if you took the TPI course, TJ or Sean, you guys can actually get in and do the screen yourself on other people. So it's, it's meant to be very, very basic, but at the same time give you a good level of understanding. I think with a medical screen comes into play is you kind of take it to the next step. 7:15 So it's like an actual functional movement screen. It's very specific and it's tailored towards somebody who's a medical practitioner. And that's where you get into the nitty gritty. You can kind of pick out the details of what somebody's missing or what they do well and you kind of problem solve from there. 7:31 And I'm a natural problem solver. So I always joke with my clients and I say that I probably talked their heads off about anatomy and bio mechanics and Physiology and they walk out learning probably way more than they wanted to. But I think getting that baseline screen and getting kind of that foundation set is, is huge because it kind of gives you an understanding of what you're good at and again, what you're what you're maybe not so good at. 7:59 Do you ever find that the initial screen might help explain for some of the patients their natural swing where you you're like, oh, that's why I'm not coming all the way around or that's why I'm doing this? Absolutely 100%. You know, I think again, going back to the TPI app, I, I sound like I'm, I work for them now, but the, the app is actually really cool. 8:22 So it's got this AI built in that you can actually, once you plug in all the data through the test, it kind of predicts, not that it's perfect, but it does predict what it thinks some of your swing faults can be. And so that's valuable information for a golf coach, for example, right? 8:37 If it spits out like, hey, there's a 90% chance you're probably early extending because of your body, maybe not because of your mechanics or your actual swing itself. And yeah, I mean, that's that stuff is invaluable. And it's like at least gives you a boost to kind of what to look for, gives you a little insight. 8:56 Then you kind of dive in from there. And yeah, I, I've done the screen on myself and I'm like, oh, OK, now I can blame something else. It's not my actual sling. Exactly. Always have something else to put the blame on as. Golfers, right? It's never, Yeah, it's never been. No, always, always something else. 9:14 OK, so the first one we wanted to dive into here was mobility. I think the first thing I want to clarify for people at home or have you clarify I guess is what is the difference between mobility versus stretching? 9:33 That's a good question, really good question. I, I get that one a lot for my patients. And I would say the biggest difference without getting too technical is mobility can be in a form of control. 9:49 So you can have let's, let's talk about our hips. That's the easiest thing in the golf swing. The hips are very involved. So if you want to get to the top of your backswing, you need rotation through your hips. Somebody could maybe not necessarily be flexible through their muscles. 10:05 You know, their hamstrings might feel tight, which is another topic, or their hip flexors might feel tight, but they can get to that position, they can get that range of motion. And so mobility comes from control through the joint, so the actual articular surface between the bones, or it could come from your muscles ability to glide and slide and be able to move. 10:29 Whereas flexibility is like, hey, can you hamstring? Easy example, can you lift your legs straight up in the air to a minimum of 70° which is kind of like textbook normal and if you you can't then the inception is you lack flexibility which again another topic. 70° sounds a lot, yeah, you know. 10:56 You'll be surprised, man. It's, it's funny, like it's 70° seems like a lot, but you know, a lot of times people are like, especially the older clients that I work with, like no way I can get to 70°. What are you talking about? I'm like, you sure as shit you can let's, let's see it. 11:12 And, you know, you put them in a position all of a sudden they've got it. So yeah, it's it's easier. Easier than than it might seem, or than it might look. OK, so also I'm going to have to fully resist like the urge to like weirdly like stretch and like do things in the middle of this. 11:30 I can already feel that urge dude coming on. Under the table of my hips, I was already like moving. Slightly. I could already feel it, like I was already visualizing it. OK, so if a golfer at home wanted to set a good, this one's a little tough because it's like mobility is kind of all over the place. 11:51 Depending upon what, what, what range of mobility that we are trying to assess. Maybe this one's a little bit better. What is the biggest mobility restriction that you commonly see holding golfers back? Yeah. So like we talked about the hips, I would say the hips are probably 1A and the thoracic spine. 12:15 So the thoracic spine is basically your whole middle back. So it's from kind of the upper part of your shoulder blades ish to the bottom of your rib cage. So that not only is it your spine, but if we're talking about the thorax, it's your rib cage and your spine. 12:30 So your mid back, those two areas are probably the most common deficits that I see, especially in your average male. I would say it's more common in men than it is in women. And it's funny because like, you know, you'll get some people that they'll feel like they've got a super long backswing. 12:55 They're like, I'm not tight in my mid back, what are you talking about? And you know, you'll measure and they'll have 40° of thoracic rotation. Well, you know, as a baseline, we want people to be at 50. Ideally, they're better than that. They're 55 to 60°, rotating left to right. 13:12 So, you know, they, they, they're like, what the heck, How am I getting to the top of my backswing? And that's where you could be pulling from other places in your body and creating other problems. Is, is this why so many people see frequent success with a shorter backswing? Is because once you usually get to a certain point, you're starting to use all of the other muscles and imbalances to get even further? 13:35 Whereas yeah, yes. For sure, yeah. Now there are other factors that come into play, but from a general standpoint for sure, like you know, if you if you're John Daling, you're backswing and you don't have the mobility to do it, you know, there's no way that you're going to make solid consistent contact. 13:58 Or you could you, you might play well, but you might end up with aches or pains. So yeah, compact backswing, you know, textbook golf swing is kind of the most ideal position to be in. OK. Cool, cool, cool. OK, so a little bit more generalized question here. 14:14 Obviously talked about being screened without seeing someone's actual swing. What 3 mobility exercises should every golfer be doing on the regular? So I'm a, I'm a huge fan of. 14:31 So there's two ways we can, I can answer this question. I think. I think first, if we're talking about driving range, like how people can get their bodies moving from a mobility standpoint, cuz let's be real, unless you're like very committed, most people aren't going to spend 1520 minutes doing a mobility routine on a consistent basis. 14:51 So it's like you get to the range, you know, you see your average person, they'll grab like the orange whip or they'll grab 2 wedges and they'll start swinging it in the air and think like, yeah, that's pretty good. I feel, I feel decent, you know, but. We all know that guy, yeah. 15:07 We all know that guy, and I know maybe one of you guys are guilty of that. I don't know, but I'm guilty. Of that, the two club swing. That's right. Exactly. That's that's a popular one. I think getting your hips moving is probably the most important. 15:23 I think from a general standpoint, most people, they lack that hip mobility. So doing like a hip airplane, that's a that's a pretty common one just to get the hip moving through its controlled amount of rotation. But then again, we can't leave out the thoracic spine. 15:39 So getting your mid back loosened up and warmed up, A lot of people like to do kind of a lunge with A twist. A lot of people like to take a club, rotate to the top of their back swing and then push away, push their arms away and extend their arms out. 15:58 Yeah, it's that one is, is another way you can kind of open up the mid back and then really from a a spine standpoint, very basic low level getting like a cat cow because you can kind of get the spine warmed up, but doing it standing. 16:14 So like shoving your club into the ground and doing a pelvic cat cow and or a pelvic tilt, easier way to describe it. And that's actually one of the TPI screen tests. So it kind of gives us an idea like, hey, can this person move from their pelvis or are they just super stuck and limited? 16:33 So then again, they'll be pulling it from other places. Go ahead, Sean. No, no, I'm go for it. I love the idea of the standing cat cow because I know for a lot of people, the instant you tell somebody to like get down on the ground or take a knee, like out at the golf course and actively make it look like they're doing like a stretch on the ground, they're like, I'm out. 16:57 I don't want to be that guy at the golf course who packed his own yoga mat to put it down and protect his knees on the driving range. So I love the idea of the standing cacao. That's that's a, that's a huge key. Yeah, it's funny you say that, actually. 17:13 I feel like that is probably a huge reason why you don't see people actually warming up. I, I think it's more of like, what's the person next to me think? And I have no freaking shame at all, dude. I have a band in my bag. 17:28 I've got a, one of those booty bands that I put around my knees and I'm freaking, I'm going for it, you know, and I, I just, I see the value in avoiding getting hurt. So I don't care what the hell I look like. But I think that's a huge barrier. So it's interesting you bring that up. 17:45 I think if you're, if you have a guy in the group or even at the range that's doing that, the stigma's gone and now everyone feels a little guilty that they're also not doing it. And you'll see a little bit of a domino effect of people kind of like crossing their arms on a club maybe and doing some of it, like trying to do whatever they can because they see someone else doing it. 18:04 It just takes one it just like it just takes one guy to jump in the water and say hey guys, the water's fine and then everybody wants to jump in, you know? Yeah, also I was going to ask about the spine you mentioned. 18:20 I I don't know anything about this topic really. I I'm I'll be the explain like I'm five guy for everyone in the audience. Sure. How are you warming up the spine? Are you like making the vertebrae literally like further apart? Like, are you like or are you like? 18:36 What's going on scientifically there? Yeah, very. That's a very good question. Yeah, sometimes it's funny. I, I, like I said, I just, I kind of just go and I, I assume everybody knows what the heck I'm talking about. So. So you when you are flexing, let's talk about the cat cow. 18:53 Are you familiar? Familiar with? That exercise, yeah, yeah. So you're on your hands and knees and you're kind of rounding out your back. I don't really know why it's called a cat cow. I get the scared cat, but the cow part I I'm not sure I understand the hump. Maybe whatever the dip, but then you're so you round out your back like a scared cat and then you arch your back like I guess a cow. 19:14 So you're, you're using your muscles obviously to move, right? But you're actually flexing and extending your spine. So flexion is like if you were to bend over and touch your toes and extension is if you're bending backwards. So when you flex, you're actually opening the spaces in between the vertebrae a little bit. 19:33 So your spine is meant to bend and extend. And then obviously if you bend backwards, you're closing down those spaces, those joint spaces in between the vertebrae. So it's important that the spine has the ability to do that. I mean, that's, that's probably the most basic movement that your spine should be able to do. 19:53 And you'll see a lot of people they like you ask them to just put their feet together and touch their toes. And it's like, how are you at your shins, dude? And like this is. That's a basic movement that we learned when we were kids, right when we were babies. And then obviously life injuries, nature of our job, whatever it is, you know, we start to lose the ability to do some of this stuff. 20:14 And it might seem very simple, but you know, spending one minute doing a cat cow can really dramatically change like how your spine and your body feels throughout the day. Just some day-to-day activity. But anyway, to answer your question, yes, you're actually opening and closing the the spaces in your vertebrae. 20:32 OK. I wasn't sure if, like the opening and closing was like flushing something out or if it was like turning a, you know, like a crusty rubber band into a really bendy rubber band. Like, you know, like what's the, what's the analogy? Or what actually happening? I'll have to think of a good analogy because that's a, it's a good, it's a really good question. 20:50 So the scientific term is it's inhibition. So essentially what that is, is you're actually supplying fluid to your discs. And so the discs in between the spine are like a Jelly doughnut. 21:06 That's a really common analogy. And inside of the Jelly doughnuts, if there's a lot of compression, if you are flexed and you twist and you compress the shit out of that thing and it you end up losing some of the Jelly from inside the doughnut, it kind of gets smashed and it comes out. 21:22 That's like a disc bulge or a disc herniation. It's a really, it's a poor way to describe what's happening. But from generally speaking, that's, that's what it is. And so the disc needs the ability to be able to kind of bounce, right? 21:38 That's where the fluid comes into play, kind of like a waterbed. And if you're not flexing and extending through the spine, it loses that ability to bounce, essentially. And so that can lead to stiffness in the joint, maybe some arthritic train changes over time, lack of mobility in the spine, all kinds of stuff. 21:59 Gotcha. Yeah. OK. Thank you for the tangent, I just needed an analogy because now when I stretch I'm going to be thinking Jelly donut, Jelly donut, Jelly donut. And you got to be able to repeat in the vision, you got to say it 10 times. Everybody got a vocabulary lesson today as well, in addition to mobility. 22:18 OK, before we jump into the second topic I want to talk about, I wanted to take a quick moment to thank today's sponsor Bird Darts. Huge shout out to today's episode, sponsor Bird Darts, who's running a incredible Black Friday, Cyber Monday deal right now going on on Amazon and their website, birddarts.com. 22:36 They're running 10% off of single tea packs and 20% off of the four pack and the carton. And Sean, I didn't know that I needed to have teas in a box until I got Bird Darts in my hands. Everyone loves them and I have the same reaction every time I pull out the box. 22:52 You have a little bit of a second look and then you realize they're Tees and they're like, how cool is that? And if you give them a box, they love them. Hands down, one of the best gifts you can give a golfer this season. The gift of Tees. All right, So I hope that everybody during that ad read took a moment to at least do some cat cows like Neimed recommended. 23:09 Get that solid minute in. At least you got to start somewhere. So now that we've covered mobility, we're going to jump into today's second topic, which you might have alluded to before. But stretching, I think stretching in general, but that's kind of why I wanted to bring up the difference a little bit too, so that people aren't just like, well, mobility is stretching. 23:26 It's the same thing. So ask you about the difference. But we talked about the the mobility warming up before the round, but stretching something that people can be doing at home to help better their golf swing. So what let's let's talk about starting off at home. What are three stretches you think that most golfers should be doing on a daily basis? 23:47 Yeah. So I think one of my favorites personally and one that I give to a lot of my clients because a lot of us are sitting for work, whether it's sitting at work from home or sitting in an office. And it's called the couch stretch. So what it does is it stretches the hip flexors, the quads and kind of that anterior fascia. 24:09 And fascia is just connective tissue that kind of layers in between the muscle. It's a really, really good one. And it's, it's really just to relieve tension and stress on the hips in the low back, unless you're a contortionist and you can spend 15 minutes in one position stretching, which that's their job. 24:29 So that's what they have to do. You're not going to really gain any more mobility. But it's like a feel good, let's stretch this out. Let's let's take some pressure off our backs from sitting 6 to 8 hours a day. I'd say the next one is kind of a, a blend of a couple. 24:46 So it's it's targeting the piriformis, which is one of the muscles deep in the glute and it's a hip rotator. So usually like if if you guys have heard the term sciatica, it's a pretty common injury. A lot of people get LeBron James most recently from golfing probably so which is which is hilarious, but get stretching the piriformis is a good way to kind of relieve some of that deep glute tension and tightness that a lot of people might experience. 25:18 So that's like a Figure 4 stretch or like a crossover ankle on the knee and drop your hip over. But if there are many variations of a piriformis stretch, but that's the name of that muscle. And I would say the third is like from a, a very easy kind of basic level, it's like getting some of the muscles in the mid back, the thoracic spine opened up. 25:44 So like doing like an open book, which is lying on your side and opening a book is really, it's what it looks like. So you're just opening your chest, it kind of stretches out the pecs. It gets the mid back moving a little bit or you lying on a foam roller vertically and doing like a PEC stretch. 26:02 Cause again, if most of us are sitting a lot of the day and our posture is kind of rounded forward and in the golf swing, you want to be able to move your shoulder blades, retract your, your shoulders be able to turn. So it kind of helps just take tension off the the front of the chest and the the neck. 26:20 Nice. So what's a good like rule of thumb for these? Should I be doing like three sets of these for how long? Like if if you were to give me a plan for each of those three, what, what would it look like or what? What's a good rule of thumb per day? Yeah, like commonly you'll hear three sets 30 seconds. 26:38 That's like pretty generic prescription. I like to go more for feel the stretch as deep and as aggressively as possible for a minute. And if you tolerate a minute, great. If you can't tolerate a minute, go till failure. 26:54 And that's just like, this sucks. I can't go anymore. And if that's your stopping point shy of a minute, that's fine. But really, you know the research there for stretching specifically, there really isn't. It's kind of like if it feels good, just keep going. 27:13 You can't really overstretch unless again, you spend an extended amount of time in a really awkward position and you you are doing the stretch right. So a minute's good general rule of thumb. On the Figure 4 or the one where you're kind of moving your legs side to side, have you ever noticed with people like that maybe the natural swing for them? 27:39 So let's say they're right-handed. They come back this way, their legs naturally are easier to go one way than the other, and the way that's harder for them is usually the opposite. Whoops, sorry, I hit the mic there. The way that's harder for them to stretch is the way that they don't normally turn in their backswing. 27:58 Does that usually happen with your people or is that just a me problem? That sounds like it's a me problem, John. No, it's common. It's common. I think it can vary. You don't see a lot of consistency one way or the other. 28:15 But in the golf swing specifically, more people I would say are limited more towards their lead side. So for a right-handed golfer it would be their left side. And that's purely it. Just just my opinion. I actually don't know for sure, but in my opinion is that I think it's just because you're just only swing in a Golf Club on your right side. 28:35 So that's what I'm saying, like non golfers don't have that problem. I've noticed sometimes, like if I've ever asked anyone but a golfer is like, Oh yeah, that way. Yeah, I can only go that far back. And like, I don't know if that's just repetition through the years of your golf swing or what. I think it is and I think a lot of it is a lot of people don't really train for golf. 28:55 And I know we're probably going to get to this at some point, but you know, train both sides. You did. It doesn't mean you have to swing a Golf Club both sides, but it does mean that you need to do bilateral training. So like if you're doing rotational work on the right side, we better be doing rotational work on the left side and not just working on your swing side. 29:15 So keep some, keep some balance. Yeah. OK, Sean, I'm loving you deep diving into this. Like it's been like as a person who's gone through a a decent amount of like injuries or I, I used to do, I won't say CrossFit at a high level, but I used to do a lot of CrossFit. 29:37 So I did a lot of mobility and stretching, and I've gone through, you know, multiple visits with PTS and stuff like this. So some of this is like, I'll say for me, it's a little bit of a repeat. It's stuff I know I should be doing that I'm not actively doing, but it's good to hear again. But it's also cool watching Sean be like, oh, like, and you're like uncovering like the first time, like I'm here. 29:57 It's so cool. Usually we're on the opposite side of this as golfers where I'm learning something for the first time and you're like, Oh yeah, no duh. Like. Yeah, I mean, people who've listened to just know this, but like, I'm the golf nerd guy that knows stupid random facts about tournaments or players or like, you know, like certain strategies. 30:18 But when it comes to fitness, TJ is the absolute expert in the between the two of us. I am notoriously not a guy that goes and works out. And so he he's doing CrossFit or he's doing stuff or like we get off a call and he's like, yeah, I got to go do a workout and then I'm heading whatever. 30:34 That's never my evening. I'm never doing a workout and then doing something like the workouts only maybe like on the weekend once so sounds. Like there's some good balance between you 2 then? Yeah. But so my point is like what he's saying, my wife knows this. 30:51 She's multiple times. She's a fitness instructor. So she has tried to get me to do some of these things. And she's realized over the years, the only way to really get me interested in this is if it's something that I can correlate to my golf game. There you go. Love it. And so, you know, these conversations, I'm asking because I'm like, OK, will that get me ball speed? 31:08 Will that get me more? You know what I mean? So, and I think, I mean, I think it'd be cool if we eventually if we dive into the golf swing stuff and talk a little more specifics because, you know, I think that's where like that's the conversation can get really fun for the golf nerds like us. 31:27 So yeah, I'd be, I'd be curious to see what kind of questions you have when it comes to that stuff because I got, I got plenty for that. Cool. OK, So sticking on the topic of stretching, I think I want to call out or see if you can at least call one out. 31:42 What is probably the most overrated stretch that you see golfers doing consistently? Like if you could tell golfers you're wasting your time doing that stretch, is it? Is it the two clubs swing? Is it the? Yes. I don't know if like the two clubs thing doesn't really qualify as a stretch, but yeah, I would say that's probably the most overrated thing you can do for sure. 32:07 Now that I'm not saying don't do it, but if you've got 5 minutes, you better believe you can make those 5 minutes count way more than swinging 2 close. Yeah, it's like it's, it's interesting 'cause I think people, I think people think about stuff like that as like a, it's not like a stretch. 32:26 I think they think of it more as like a warm up, whereas I think you'd be like, I think you'd see significantly better returns on like actually activating your central nervous system and your CNS doing like jumping jacks before a round and actually prepping your body for those types of things and actually making it warm as opposed to like moving through the motion. 32:50 Man, you know what I think it is? I think so many of us played baseball when we were kids and watched MLB players swing a bat with a doughnut, and I think that this is the golfer's equivalent of a swing doughnut to where they're like, yeah, if I just like. 33:10 It totally is the extra weight. In my brain it's like, Oh yeah, if I like swing, like yeah, if I swing 3 clubs, like it's completely normal. Yeah. Yeah, you, you couldn't be more right. I, I think, you know, getting your central nervous system firing and just getting moving, getting blood flowing. 33:28 I I think to, to touch on that a little bit is like, I think people think, and I think it's changed especially since Tiger, but I think people in general that don't know the game of golf think that golf is just like you just kind of walk out there and you just play some stickball, you know, and just screw around. 33:46 But if you're trying to play like obviously we're trying to have fun, but if you want to go put up a good score, if you want to become better at the sport, it requires probably more flexibility, mobility, strength and technique than people really give it credit for. 34:03 So yeah, I think it's kind of underrated in that aspect. I mean, to piggyback off that, I'm trying to look at what year it actually came out. OK, Happy Gilmore came out in 1996. So a little like right before Tiger Woods hits the scene. 34:19 And what's the line where he talks about in Tiger Woods when he gets proposed to play golf where he's like, no golfers for people with huge asses. You should see my lawyer or whatever. He's got a huge ass, probably a great golfer. So like for especially like for people of of of our age. 34:36 I don't mean to lump you in with us, Nima, but I bet for a lot of us like Happy Gilmore was a lot of our first exposures or exposures at all to golf. So I thought the Segway was from huge ass to to me. No, that was the age lump, but not huge asses. 34:59 But. What I'm saying is, yeah, what I'm saying is like, I think that's and again, like I I think for a lot of people who are not necessarily familiar with the game, like I've heard, I've heard multiple comparisons of of what Tiger we're going to get weird here again, what Tiger Woods looks like without his shirt on and that he looks like a a lightweight middle weight boxer. 35:19 Like he is he is that and it was like that was unforeseen before he even existed. And now it's like you're on the complete opposite side of it where there's like a handful of guys on the tour that look like Harry Higgs and way more guys on the tour that look like Tiger Woods. 35:39 Definitely you're you're 100% right about that. No shame to Harry. Before we move topics real quick on the stretches that don't do anything, I have a bit of a lightning round for you here, Nima. OK, all you have to say is yes, it does something or no, that doesn't do anything for you. 35:57 OK? These are all stretches that people in my foursome or others I play with regularly do on the course. OK, yeah, I'm scared. First one hanging on the side of the cart and doing a quick calf stretch for like 3 seconds. Love it. That's solid. Oh really? OK, second one on the range. 36:14 No, not with the club, just with the arm. Just doing a windmill. Sure, why not? OK, sure. Why not? That's pretty nice. You're. Moving as long as you're. Touching your toes but doing not holding it, just doing the like bounce for like 3 bounces, they're not holding it. 36:31 Yeah, I don't hate that. Wow, OK, I thought I thought you're going to shit on these is is your motto. Just if you're doing anything essentially it's better than. That, yeah, pretty much. OK, I feel. Obviously there there are some that are better than others, but yeah, like, you know, if you're just running up to the first tee, not doing shit and then hitting driver off the tee, it's that's probably the worst thing you can do. 36:56 It's it's the thing that's like when I play with not to help my dad here, but when I play with older guys and sometimes that generation, I understand that they've got scar tissue, they've got muscle issue. There's like other stuff when you reach 60 and older, right, that you're going to deal with. And I'm sure I will too. 37:12 But it's always funny to me that in their minds, they have the expectation that their ball off the first tee is going to be down the middle in the fairway. And they're always astonished when they need a breakfast ball or it's not. And then if you look at the correlation of like, what did they do before that? 37:29 They had a beer, maybe like they grabbed something, they came from there and then they probably did that little like calf stretch for like 3 seconds and then they grabbed their club and went up there, you know? And I'm like, OK, well, at 60 you'd think you'd probably put even more time into like some of these little warm up things just to make sure that you got it in place. 37:48 That's that's what you would think, that's what you'd think. But again, like, you know, I think it's, it's a matter of like what that person really cares about. And, and because golf is such a casual game, you want to go and play it with your friends. 38:03 You want to have a good time, especially like you said, for that generation, I think now a lot of them being retired and it's kind of like their main hobby. They get to hang out with their friends. It's like the last thing they want to do is worry about fitness, you know, and maybe that's the assumption, I don't know. 38:19 But, you know, I think access is probably also a limiting factor, access to that information and being able to go and do stuff. And, you know, a lot of those guys, again, they're not going to bring extra stuff with them to the golf course. 38:35 So if they don't have access, yeah, go to the clubhouse, get a bite, grab a beer, grab one to go, and then let's let it fly. Which isn't a bad thing, by the way. That's that's all. No, I mean, I like playing with those guys. 38:52 I also love our recurring trope of this podcast, which is you subtly dragging your dad. It's one of these days we're gonna have him on the pod. I don't know what topic or course, but I can't wait. We might just, you know, what we might just do is we might just do a roast of Sean Massey and we'll have your dad on as one of the guests for that one. 39:09 You can do that. He'll tell you some good stories. We'll do both of us. But but yeah, we'll have your dad on for the roast of Sean Massey. OK, so we're going to jump into the third topic here. Nima kind of snuck it in a little bit earlier. But the third thing that people should be doing every offseason is resistance training, right? 39:28 People should be lifting weights, trying to improve themselves, not just for vanity's sake, but also for your golf sake. So let's talk about, because I think there's a lot of myths associated probably with resistance training for golf. 39:47 What's probably some of the biggest myths that you've heard about golfers lifting weights and doing resistance training? I would say the biggest myth is if you just start resistance training, you're just kind of get jacked and you won't be able to move and you'll be immobile. 40:04 And obviously in golf, like we talked about earlier, you want that mobility, you want to be flexible, you want to be able to move, which I think is the craziest myth, I think. The assumption is that all of a sudden, you know, a lot of times a lot of women, they won't lift heavy because they're afraid they're going to get too bulky, right? 40:23 I think that's a common misconception as well. It's the same thing. So, you know, you don't just get in the gym and you start lifting heavy and just get absolutely massive. You know, it doesn't, the body doesn't work like that. And I think if you're training properly, I think that's the biggest, the biggest key. 40:43 You just got to make sure you're doing the right things. And it's it's very simple. You don't have to make it difficult. But yeah, to answer your question, that's probably the biggest myth. Yeah, it's, it's one that the female one I've heard touched upon for years and years. And the, the, the, I guess the rebuttal to that that I've always kind of had is that as a male, my body produces significantly more testosterone and is more than capable of becoming bulky or large. 41:16 And I've actively tried and attempted to do that for years to no avail. So if you, as a female, think that just like all of a sudden you're just going to pick up weights one day and become yoked, it's probably not the case. 41:34 So and one and one thing too in addition to that is, and I think this could be for maybe more the more the female audience, but I think because women typically are more prone to being a little more flexible just anatomically they have a little more mobility and flexibility. 41:54 I think they actually would benefit from doing resistance training the most. I mean, that's the group, if they're golfers, and I work with a lot of juniors, especially junior girls, and they lack so much stability and so much strength because they just grew up like hitting golf balls and that's all they do. 42:14 And, you know, they end up with all these different injuries and problems, and they are the ones that need it the most, especially as they get older. So yeah, I mean, I think strength training can be done in many different ways. And if you're a golfer and you want golf specific strength training, there's a place for that. 42:34 But also golfers should be doing regular strength training because those movements apply to golf too. And I think that's another myth is like, should I do deadlift? Should I squat? Should I do lunges? Is that stuff good for golf? And it's probably the best thing for you, you know, So. 42:52 Yeah. Yeah, I've watched multiple people who I used to work out with all of a sudden pick up a Golf Club. And once they kind of figure out the mechanics a little bit, it's like, Oh my God, they they can, they can hit a slice and they're still out driving people by 10 yards. 43:11 Even with the resist, even with everything taken off because of the spit. It's like, yeah, all of that stuff like translates over, even though it is not the same. And we talked about the golf swing not being super athletic. The body is still the body, right? I have two different kind of, I guess like movement or exercise based questions that I want to ask. 43:33 The first one being, if someone wants to build more power in their swing, what type of strength exercises should they be doing that would give them the best return on that? What's kind of like the best bang for buck on building power in your golf swing? Yeah. 43:49 So explosive movements are really the the best thing for power. So, you know, in golf, even though it might not look like it, you're actually at the very end of the golf swing performing a vertical jump. You're just not physically jumping off the ground. 44:06 But the forces that are applied into the ground mimic a vertical jump. So PGA Tour players, they average in terms of vertical force, twice as much vertical force as their body weight. So let's say someone's 150 lbs, they're putting 300 lbs of vertical force into the ground. 44:27 And that's how those guys can generate speed, right? So I think vertical power and explosive movements are probably the best thing you can do. That could be box jumps, so you can make it plyometric. That could be box jumps. 44:42 That could be reverse squat jumps. I mean, whatever it is, weighted jumps, but it could also be explosive movements, like as long as you can do them safely, like trap bar deadlifts, right? I think there's a misconception that deadlifts are bad for your back. 45:00 Yeah, maybe. The risk reward for a traditional deadlift isn't there, but like a trap bar deadlift with maybe a little bit lighter weight, but making an explosive movement is very beneficial, especially for gaining speed and power or doing like step UPS, single leg step UPS. 45:18 That's another really good one. So yeah, those those kind of explosive movements vertically are are huge. For those uninformed at home trap bar deadlifts. That's the bar that is like a hexagon and you stand inside and grab around you to do the deadlifts as opposed to having the bar in front of you. 45:36 I know, I know. I could see. Sean, thank you working through that. I was. I was like, you put it on the other side. I was like. No, that's not right. He was thinking like you were thinking like your trapezoid. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. That sounds dangerous. Sean. Sean's about to go start a whole golf workout later. 45:51 He's the next week. He's going to be doing vertical jumps and trap, not unsupervised. According according to Dima, something is always better than nothing, so as long as you don't get hurt, you're good. Had a doctor told me this was working trap bar. 46:07 Yeah, trap bar deadlift was literally like the first one that I thought about where I was like, oh, I've seen plenty of golfers. Like you see the warm up routines of someone like Scotty Scheffler or Roya McElroy. You always, you always see these guys doing trap bar deadlifts. But the I, I never, I thought in my brain it was just safe. 46:25 Like I always thought trap bar deadlifts were just safer for your back in general, putting less of a strain on your lower back 'cause you can sit down in it, you get to squat a little bit more. It puts, puts a little bit more emphasis in the quads as opposed to just hamstrings. But the fact that it also allows you to be a little more explosive in that driving that force straight upwards makes a ton of sense. 46:45 And talk about exerting the force up. And you watch people like Scotty Scheffler's legs almost slide out from underneath him because he's coming up so hard, right? Yeah. To your point about the compact backswing, going back to that, Jon ROM as as we know has a very compact backswing. 47:05 But he aside from like physical limitations and stuff that he has with his clubfoot and everything he generates, don't quote me on this number, but I believe it was around 230% of his body weight and vertical force. And he's not like his backswing super short. 47:21 So he's just extremely powerful. And you see his legs, like his legs are huge, right? So he's just generating all that force into the ground, and ground force is like a a major thing. I, I have a question on that. I, I, I've known this concept of using the ground and driving into the ground and stuff like that, but like I can't make gravity go any faster when I'm in my backswing. 47:44 I don't know how to like make my body go down And it feels like if I squat or lean or something, that's not the right way to do it. So I understand like the jumping part, right? But like, how do I like legitimately in the back part right before I do that? How do I put more weight down? 48:00 I don't get that. First of all, I'm saying that your backswing is on the wrong side. Are you a lefty? I'm lefty. Sorry. Okay, All right, I was gonna say. That looked a little weird. Simple fix here Sean. We don't even need a PT here. You need to stand on the other side of the ball. 48:15 Yeah, it's funny, actually. This is random, but I was making fun of a lefty on the tee box that I knew. So I wasn't I wasn't being an asshole. I promise. I'm very chill to play golf with. But he I was like, Oh yeah, he's standing on the wrong side of the ball. 48:31 And somebody in our group was like, well, he's actually standing on the right side of the ball, you know, busted out the dad joke and I was like, all right, touché, you got me there. Anyway, I don't know why I brought that up, but going back to your question, Sean, So just if you think of like the traditional golf swing, right, like the Jack Nicklaus golf swing is probably the best example where it's like very rotationally driven and you can see like his heel likes to come off the floor, especially hidden driver likes to come off the ground a little bit. 49:03 He's very long and very vertical and, and all that rotation, we don't know how much ground force he was using. But you compare that swing with like the swing of like Bryson Dechambeau or Justin Thomas, right where they're super Lord very much so loaded into the ground. 49:24 Like you can see if you zoom in on their back in their in their backswing, you zoom in on the trail foot, you can see the trail foot actually start to like Corkscrew into the ground almost. So you're like driving that foot down into the ground to create a little more stability, to create kind of a oil. 49:41 And then as you start your transition into your downswing, you just unleash all that power and then you push off your lead side and. OK, that I can picture. See, I love that kind of stuff. There are a lot of drills and. Things you can do and, and a lot of people ask me how they want to gain like speed and power. 49:56 They want to use the ground better. And so I put these, there are a lot of different swing plates and stuff out there. I'm just a solo guy. So I don't, I don't, I don't have it like that. But I do have pressure insoles that I put in my client's shoes. And so then I can kind of see what their feet are doing in their golf swing when they hit balls. 50:14 And then we kind of do stuff to kind of work on building more ground force there. It's pretty cool. Gotcha. OK. Thank you. Phenomenal question, Sean. I loved it. I was it's it's it's funny when because you're also like hand up, you're also the science guy between the two of us. 50:31 So you're like, I understand gravity, but how do I effectively change gravity to make it better? I'm pulled over. I can't pull over any further. I. Can't pull over any. Officer, what am I supposed to do? All right. 50:49 And I following up on the second one, let's say a golfer has 20 minutes a day to do resistance training. Give me 3 exercises that they should be doing. Give me give me a quick little plan. And then also from those three, let's lead off with what is the most important one. 51:06 Like if they could only do one strength training a day, what would that be? OK. So I would say for like somebody who's newer into strength training that might not have a lot of experience in the gym, I would say the most important things they can do are picking up some dumbbells and working on either like a dumbbell squat or a dumbbell step up. 51:28 I think trying to create a little more drive through the legs is a great place to start at a very, you know, kind of beginner level. And there's a lot you can do from there to kind of expand and get very golf specific. But creating that vertical for us I think is one of the is one of the biggest things. 51:45 The second would be working the core through rotation. So end range core rotational work using like a like a cable and taking like AD handle, which is just like your basic handle at the gym and just working, keeping the core tight, keeping everything stable, working through rotation with that handle. 52:07 So you know, like you can even play with the height. So you can lift the cable start like you're starting at the top of your backswing and then work on chop. So you're chopping that cable down towards your opposite hip, but also working with with rotation. So getting the hips to rotate a little bit and try to get the core to work with the hips together. 3rd Gosh, there's so many directions we can go with these. 52:34 Let's see, we covered the core of the hips. Let's go mid back. I think stabilizing the trunk is another good place to go. One of my favorites is doing like an anchored, I call it an anchored airplane. I don't know the official term, but you take a band and pull it across your chest and then you have your foot against the wall and then you kind of your front foot is step. 52:59 You're like step forward a little bit and you get into golf posture. And then you pull that band across your chest. Create some tension through the shoulder blades where you're working kind of the upper back. And then you rotate, you load into your right side or left side, whatever sides forward and then rotate away and you're kind of just rotating left to right, kind of like an airplane. 53:18 You know you're going this way because that helps Dr. stability through the lower trunk. So kind of keeping the legs into the ground and stable and up against the wall, and then it's creating mobility through the upper truck, so getting your upper body to rotate, which is essentially what the golf swing is. 53:38 Gotcha. On the core piece, would a medicine ball throw against the wall do have a similar effect to the chops and the cable? Or are they kind of related but not the same? Yeah, they they definitely can. So like if you do medicine ball tosses, those are, those are great, especially for power and sequencing stuff. 54:00 So you know, people that want to improve their sequencing and their golf swing and have their kinematic sequence be on point, you can use weight and resistance. That's the way to do it with the cables though, especially for somebody that's kind of newer into training, you know, you can use the cable and and control the motion through resistance. 54:23 And I think like with a medicine ball, it's easy to get a little wonky with how you're moving around. So at least with the cable you can control it. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I had AI had an old swing coach who tried to get me to do the medicine ball toss to work on my sequencing. 54:39 And it was it, it, it, it, it works once you kind of figure out through all of it what you should be doing. But it's funny because also, like we just talked about this, we just had Mariah Swigert on Miss Swag Golf and she was talking about how at our core, all of us are kind of natural athletes. 54:58 We've most of us have thrown a ball or, or done something athletic in our in our day to days or, you know, growing up. It's kind of tapping into that, recognize that. Also at the end of the day, you are an athlete. You, you do know that the capability of how to do these things. 55:15 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's very easy to, you know, make golf very difficult and it's very difficult to make it easy. And I think, you know, the more and, and I'm a little biased because I work on the body for the most part. 55:32 So I think the the more factors you can take out of play and be able to trust that your body can do what you want it to do, then you know, at least you can take 1 excuse out of the out of the book. Yeah, the the underlying theme that I've been trying to learn and drill into my golf game overall is confidence in your ability. 55:57 So whether that is that you've done the repetitions when it's come to mobility work and stretching and strength training, and you can rely upon your body that you've built a strong foundation to do your golf swing. Or that you've built in the repetitions out on the driving range, the chipping green, the putting green, That you have the confidence standing over the ball to do that. 56:19 Or that you have the confidence in your mental process. Like all three of those things inadvertently, are also great things that people should be working on. Yeah. A. 100 percent, 100%. I like the idea of working on Sorry, I like the idea of working on things to then on the course, not have to work on it. 56:41 You're, you're doing the work off the course to feel like I've got that covered. Check. Like I don't need to go tinker with any of that kind of stuff. That's a really cool way of thinking about it. Yeah. And I think it's kind of an extension of that. 56:56 But it's like, you know, if you're the body, for example, if you're working on your your body and even if you it's not only good for golf, it's good for your health, right? I mean, I think just getting moving and getting strong and longevity is a huge piece. But yeah, I mean, if you can, you know, I hear a lot of people that get tired on 13 or 14, they're like, yeah, my score, you know, started going to shit when I got to the back half of the back nine and like, or the front half of the back nine. 57:22 And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, part of that is because you just don't have the endurance to get you there. Your body's just failing you. You know, it's not necessarily your swing all the time. It's it's like, yeah, maybe you're just not able to hold up against, let's call it for an average golfer, I don't know, maybe 40 to 50 swings. 57:43 But then that's not including practice swings and stuff. Like if you think about it, that's not that many swings. We go to the range and hit 200 balls easy. But when it comes to the golf course, it's like the mental aspect and the, you know, especially if you walk, there's a lot of steps involved. And then like 40 to 50 swings in, you're like, oh man, I'm actually pretty tired. 58:03 Yeah. And yeah, and then that, that compounds with caloric deficit hydration. Oh yeah, beer. Yeah, definitely. Concentration. Definitely Jen, if you're me. But yes, beer, beer works. Yeah, I mean, to each their own, but yeah, it's it's one of those things that that fully, fully adds up across the way. 58:24 But that was kind of all I had to cover for us. Nemo, was there anything I want to give you like a little soapbox here to stand upon? If there's anything that we didn't cover that you feel like people got to know that they should be doing, that they shouldn't be doing here is your time. 58:40 Step up. Let them know. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think generally we did, we covered a lot of it. I think a lot of these questions I get on a daily basis and I think we kind of touched on it in the beginning. But I think this is something I'm working on as an initiative with the Southern California PGA, with the local San Diego chapter. 59:01 Well, you know, with all the teaching professionals and people that work in the golf industry on the PGA side of things and at my local course at Levi A, how we can blend a screening process and a body movement assessment with somebody going to get lessons right. 59:18 Like I get, you know, I work with a lot of coaches locally and they'll send me clients because they're like, hey, I don't, I don't know what I can do with this person because they just can't move well enough for me to help them. And I think that is something that I want to push ideally globally, but on a local scale, like more on the community level where there's a better understanding of like even your recreational golfer, your average golfer that plays once a month, it doesn't matter. 59:48 I think it's just super important to take care of your body. So if you're getting lessons and if you're playing consistent enough, you should also be looking to get a screen for your body just to kind of see like, hey, is there something I'm missing or can I blend this with my coach to kind of create a collaborative team effort? 1:00:08 That's kind of my goal. So that's usually what I try to push for everybody. I like that. I love that I I my brains already moving on spoiler here. Fingers crossed Sean will be moving to San Diego next year. And I'm already I already have my brain wrapped around both of us coming in and getting a screening and then kind of maybe even doing like a follow up pod on on things that we've done and and kind of doing a follow up on on some stuff like that. 1:00:35 So I think that'd be that'd be really. Cool to work on. Yeah, that, that would be awesome. I mean it, you know what, what I, what I like to do in my assessments, like it's, it's not only a screen, it's like we measure, you know, we see what your range of motions like we see what your strength is. Like I have you hit balls into my, my net at the studio. 1:00:53 And then we kind of get like a global picture on like how things are moving around and, and we come up with a plan and, and I think because it's specific and it's tailored to you and what you need or whoever walks in the door, you know, we don't figure everything out on the first session. 1:01:10 But I think what's cool is when I get to work with people, I get to learn about them more and more and I get to learn how they're moving and how their game is progressing. And then we just make adjustments on the fly. So I know we talked a lot about like mobility and stretching and strength training, but a lot of it is also from a rehab standpoint, you know, how can we get people feeling better so they can play longer using science, right? 1:01:33 I think that's, that's the coolest part. So yes, I think that would be very cool to do. And I have my own app that I kind of recorded a bunch of my own exercises. So I'll set you guys up with those exercises and hopefully keep you accountable. Yeah. And then we'll see how that goes. 1:01:50 Heck yeah. So, Nema, if somebody has absolutely loved everything that they heard out of your mouth today, where can they find more? Where can they find you? Where? Where can they find? Where can they connect with you? Where can they find you at? Obviously right now mostly in San Diego, but let him know. 1:02:08 Yeah. So I'm a San Diegoite, I think. No, I think people might kill us for that. I think we should say San Diegans, but I'm in San Diego. My office is kind of centrally located. It's in Serrano Valley, which is right by Torrey Pines, if anybody's familiar with that area. 1:02:27 And I, I work primarily in person, so I've got a, an office inside of a training studio. So we kind of do all our, our magic in there. But I also work with clients online virtually. So I've got clients all over the country. I've got clients in Canada, I've got a client in India. 1:02:45 So it's pretty cool to be able to reach a broader audience through kind of my online training programs and stuff so they can find me usually on Instagram. It's kind of the easiest way to connect with me. It's just T it up PT or my website T it up pt.com. 1:03:04 Very cool, Very cool. Well, there you go, folks. Nima, thank you so much for hopping on. This was super enlightening. I know Sean learned a ton today. I did. A lot to take away, I appreciate. 1:03:20 It a lot, a lot to take away. It'll be very interesting. I'll, I'll keep you abreast as to some of the things that Sean starts to work on here in the next week or immediately even this evening where he'll say, oh, yeah, I immediately went out in the garage and did this tonight. But I wanted to thank you again for hopping on. 1:03:36 And we'll obviously include all the links to all the Neema stuff if you want to connect with him. Those will be in the description. But yeah, Neema, thanks again. We appreciate it, ma'am. Yeah, I appreciate you guys for having me. Thanks so much. This is a lot of fun and hopefully I'll get to finally meet you in person. Sean, Hopefully you make that move to San Diego and we'll play some golf together, so. 1:03:54 I'll be out before then. OK, cool. Well, you got to hit me up. We'll we'll get out there and play some golf. Cool. Sounds good. All right. Thanks guys.