0:10 Today I must play 2 firsts in one day, a live podcast recording with the boys and free tacos at the turn. We're talking about Rams Hill Golf Club in Borrego Springs, CA and we're coming to you live from the house on the hill right off the 15th tee, I'm Sean Massey. With me always is TJ Van Gutten and we have two guests joining us this week, one of which is making his debut on the pod and the other his triumphant return. 0:32 Please welcome Kevin Surreal, who you may know is Surreal Golf, and Josh McLean, also known as Rev Mac. Gentlemen, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the pod. Voice pleasure to be. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Cheers, fellas. Cheers. So before we dive into Rams, we're cheering right now with our favorite glasses. 0:49 This toast is brought to you by Vice Drink Ware, the official glass of golf. More about Vice coming up in the show, but. Gentlemen, cheers. Are we having moonshine? Yeah, Rev, What are we drinking tonight? This is old smoky, salty, calm whiskey people at Old Smoke. 1:10 Now we're making a strike over here. You know, like we'd like to use some stuff to have a have a good time out there. So they sent us a couple bottles. This is one of them and I recommend it highly. It's pretty delicious. It's pretty good. It's pretty good to sip on, like it doesn't need it doesn't need on the rocks or anything like that. 1:27 It's pretty sweet. Cold for. The record I was just a little aggressive and I noticed your glasses are still full and mine is empty. Can we get a quick? Can we get a quick glass check for the cameras? 1:44 Empty. OK, I guess. TJ they can buy this on vicestwear.com, right? You can if you were one of the seven must play stands that exist out there. You can pick up your own must play vice drink Ware. 1:59 I think they've even got all the way up to the three up now where you can get your own coaster and ball marker from them. Ball marker, you say? Ball marker. Kevin loves a good ball. Marker. Do you have enough of those? Me. Yeah. I'm not a as we know, I'm not a ball marker guy. 2:14 I'm a I'm a flag pin guy. But Kevin. Loves a good ball marker, he's made that very quick. That's my go to, of course, the ball. Marker, I'm the same way. Less space. Yeah, it's just from a storage standpoint alone. When you get a garage and you have your like the wife has the house and you have your own space, that's your office. 2:36 So the the flags are mine, yeah. The flags. We'll we'll dive into that later. All right, Kev, you're up first. This is your first time on the pod and I'd love to have a little bit more background on you for those who don't know. 2:51 So where'd you grow up playing golf and also put you on the spot? How would you describe your game today? I've only been playing for three years. I didn't grow up playing golf. Parents tried to get me into it when I was younger, but I was more of a basketball guy. 3:08 So three years ago, right around COVID, a lot of my buddies in college was playing. They were going on trips to like Palm Springs and stuff. That's when I, I was like, all right, I'll give golf a shot. And then I just went all in balls to the wall. 3:25 Can I say that on your OH? Absolutely. Yeah. We unchecked the Made for Kids. Thing as long as as long as you say earmuffs, you can say whatever you want. You say cop balls. Yeah, no, I got bit by the golf bug hard. 3:40 So like I've just been right for the past three years. Yeah and I just shot my personal best like 2 days ago. So my golf game is pretty good right now. Give. Yourself a little brag? What course? Journey at Pechanga 77 No big deal. No big. 3:56 Deal Sticky no. Definitely the lowest I've gone. Ever. Save the ball. Save the if you're supposed to do that. But check your check your check your eBay listings here soon for a surreal 77 signed. 4:14 What? What golf are you playing these days? That was a goat hill. Glove Oh, get out to the mayor. Oh, shout out to. The mayor, not to a fellow, must play chorus. Easy, easy. I know you're listening to this, probably walking the course right now, so. He's just so proud right now. 4:31 Oh yeah. He loves that it was a goat hill. A link soul glove. I know somebody that would buy that glove in carpet. Also real quick easy for those on art Cam right now, we got the goat hat and the link soul hat right now so. We got to represent. 4:46 On purpose. Oceanside, Linkville. The Goat. Yeah, I'm a fan. Let's do it. All right, Rev is back on the pod. Welcome back. You're our first official return on a must play episode. I think the fans were all, you know, just writing in basically saying when is he coming back? 5:08 My question to you is, what makes you and Kev so good as a scramble team? What you guys always seem to play together? Shoot a lot of content while you're out there, but what makes you guys pair well? Well, first of all, thank you guys for having me back. Thank you for. Having us now with William Till and this this. 5:25 Trek, it's pretty freaking awesome. We've had a great time today. Looking forward to tomorrow. What makes me no Kevin is he's a pretty radical. He's super, he's super sincere, genuine. He's the same person that you get in his videos. 5:40 He's the same person that you get in real life. He's compatible. Oh, what's your son? Are you a Gemini? Kevin is just a rad dude. I feel like we have the same sense of humor. 5:58 I feel like our handicaps are pretty close. I think he beat me by 1 today. It was my, it was his second time out here, my first time out here. Tomorrow we'll, you know, we'll run it again. But he's just a solid dude that just gets life and loves to play golf and he loves the game of golf for what it is and he just likes to have a good time. 6:19 Every time you guys pair up, you seem to shoot content that gets millions of views. It's it's pretty unstoppable. I don't know if today you got anything, but maybe tomorrow. It's all Kevin. I'm just he's like the the brain behind it. I'm just like the tool that. You're the body. I'm the body. I'm the big body. 6:35 The biggest tool being used. In a good way. In a good way. Power tool if we if. We ever have a Patreon or anything where we can have people subscribe for more content? I think Rev in the page suit might be the first piece of. 6:52 We could have a monthly Rev pay Rev page in the body suit monthly drop that would be a a piece of exclusive content where we. So the page outfit made an appearance tonight. You guys saw that first? Thing I wasn't ready. 7:09 For it. The funny thing about the page video is when I bought it, it showed up from Amazon. My wife was like, what the fuck is this? I was like, well, I got it. I have an idea and I showed her the video and she's like, I don't get it. I was like, dude, it's funny. Like I'm going. To do. This and she's like, I don't know. 7:24 So when I did it, I actually went to the golf course after it was closed. I drove to the teapots, got out there, set everything up and just stripped down. And I was like, we got like 45 seconds to admit it, to do this and just got after it. And then the page video was. 7:40 It did. It did numb you. It did pretty good. It went crazy. I he commented on it. So like the fact that she commented on it kind of like was like, hey, not your wife. No, yeah, she did. OK, good. It was probably something like Jesus Christ or something. 7:58 Christ, the page commented on it's like, and that's like something like, where can I get the outfit? And I was like, dude solidified it all. Paige commented on it. So throw it in the antique. Throw it in the in the Hall of Fame, Yeah. Question for the other content creators here. 8:14 If your fiance or wife finds a piece of content that you have made funny, does it tank? And if she doesn't get it, does it do numbies? That's a good question. 'Cause I, I'll be honest, every time I feel like, oh, every time my fiance says, oh, that's funny. 8:33 It almost always tanks. No offense. None taken. Love you, dear. It's like directly at the camera. I get married in a couple. Of days I'll move for a guy who's less than 90 days out from his wedding. What is the wedding bell? Love you to death, dear. I will say we have talked about this where I'm like, every time you think that something is funny, it does not do well. 8:52 And then every time you're like, I don't get it it, it goes gangbusters. So my wife is like, so to be honest, like I do have to follow like I like when it comes to content. But a bodysuit? Not off those guidelines. He kind of like, was like, you know what, I'm going to trust you. And then when she saw how well the video was doing, the day she's like, OK, like maybe she. 9:12 Was like I told you, yeah. So we're good. I saw Paige at the grass clippings open and she had security detail. No one else had any and she had two guys following her around and I was like, I'm glad that she probably gets those guys that are creepers. 9:29 You know, they're coming around and so I what's with the faces that you guys are making? No, I'm saying she has security because she gets those types of guys. I. Don't know and I'm I'm thinking about firing security for myself. Do you? I'm available. 9:44 I'm. Going to hire you anyway. We as fair wagers are doing OK. I'm available I. Wanted to walk up to her and talk about what just happened because you posted that like a week before. Yeah, I did. And I got boxed out by a security guard so. Tough. Didn't do it. 10:01 Tough I was looking, I was probably looking too sketched. That's probably. What happened you, I mean, you're kind of on that threshold of like, yeah, you look young, but you also thread the needle of like, this guy's skeptical. On that bombshell, let's move into our first impressions. OK, I've been wanting to talk about this all night, the first impressions. 10:22 Let's group Rams Hill impressions into one bucket and then let's talk at the larger Borrego Springs second. OK, so today was my first time playing Rams. I think it was yours. 1st. Yeah, TJ, Surreal is the only person I think who's been here. 10:38 Yeah. OK, so let's start with TJ. What was your first impression pulling through the gate and then essentially everything up until T off? So first and foremost, Sean came out from Phoenix last night. Me, Rev and surreal drove out this morning. 10:56 This is in the middle of nowhere folks like this is you think that like Rancho Mirage or Palm Desert is like out in the middle of nowhere. This is legitimately in the middle of nowhere. It is a when they say the word desert Oasis. 11:14 This is a desert Oasis like to the T we pulled in and it was like, oh, there's a golf course out here. And then you're like, oh, there's like a there's a serious golf course out here. We walked into this house. This house is incredible. 11:31 I would, I would think that every property that's out here, it's probably an extremely nice property. We can sleep probably what, 12 plus people in here it's. Yeah, too big for four, dude. It's too big for the four of us. It feels weird. 100% shout out to Rams Hill for hosting us out here. 11:47 They let us come out, they let us stay like it. It's been incredible. But it's weird. It's like we checked in and they said you guys can go out whenever. There was no really no tee times after. 12:02 Us Today's a Monday. Tuesday. Today's a Monday, it's in June. The high was in the mid 90s, so not a lot of people out here. The only other people out here after us were definitely members. And they said we could go off like an hour and a half before our tee time. 12:17 That's how open it was. Sean got here at what, 99? And they said you can go out whenever at 9 and our tee time was at noon. That's Renee in the pro shop. Really cool guy. He felt sad that I had to wait for you guys. He was like you could be done with 9 by now. No, but I will say like the house is incredible. 12:38 The course is Immaculate. Like I can imagine that during like whatever they consider peak season. June is definitely not peak season, but whatever they consider peak season, I would I would I would think this place is popping a little bit. The restaurants probably booming a little bit the the people who live out here are out here during the winter season. 12:55 The quote UN quote snowbirds like like you and I know as as Phoenix natives like I would assume that during November, December, January, February that this place is popping popping for Borrego but. That's all 100 people of them. 13:12 How much? That's all? How long of a drive from your house was it? 1:45. Yeah. I mean, it was like from Julian, probably 40 minutes, maybe 45 from Julian, we. Stopped in Julian to take a little little boys bathroom break. 13:30 Yeah, but from there I can't even whisk. What's the whistle for the other one? My kids going to love that clip. I'm going to. I'm saving that one. 13:47 But it's it's it's not too bad out of San Diego. What I will say is that upon first impression, the roads out are definitely sketch. I would not want to make this drive in the dark or tired or a few beers in me. Like that definitely plays into it. 14:04 Like, I know when you reached the conversation of wanting to play Rams Hill at the beginning of the year when we talked about our goals one. Of our goals. This is one of the courses that you wanted to play. I said if we play it, we've got to play it and stay the night. 14:21 I don't want to. I don't want to leave it 5 or 4 and get out there at six or seven to make the drive back while the sun is still up. I'd rather just stay the night. We got really lucky that we've been able to do this. We've been able to record the pod and we get to play again tomorrow and then drive back while the sun is still. 14:40 Up. Yeah, I got a nice five hour drive ahead of me tomorrow, so that'll be fun. Going back to Phoenix. Yeah. It is a doable day trip. You. That's what you did the first time, right? Yeah, it did a day trip. So what time did you what time did you leave at? I it was a weekday but it was hour and a half drive an hour 40. 15:01 No one was on the so I finished in like 3 1/2 hours. So yeah, home before my fiance was off work. So it's doable. So it's doable. And that's when that's a that's like a perk kicker for your birthday round. Like that actually makes it if you're San Diego, this course, we'll get into it later. 15:21 But like a day trip out here, back in time for dinner from San Diego, a free round for your birthday. And if you don't have to get back, you can redo that right the the replay. If you're in the summer, yeah, if your birthday's in the summer. Exactly. Yeah. 15:36 What was your first impression today? It was honestly, it was pretty cool. Like we pulled in and I fucking forgot to to do the record of the Ramsdale sign. So we literally, yeah, we got to run it back. 15:52 So we pulled in and we got to the course and it was just, I get a lot of like PGA West, like PGA West vibes, the mountains out there. Like the initial, just the initial reaction was like, holy shit, this is pretty cool. 16:08 Like this is you automatically knew that it's going to be special just because of how quiet it was and it wasn't busy. So like going into it, it's like, OK, the vibes are already coming and rolling because it's not packed, it's quiet, the views, the weather. 16:26 I mean it's what, June 2nd? And when we got there it was like 85° but the wind was blowing so it felt like a 79. It wasn't too bad, it wasn't. Too bad. I would say July, August. It's going to be tough. 16:41 Right. Yeah, Next week it's going to be tough. I saw a forecast. I mean, we thought, we thought, we thought we were going to get a few good days here at the beginning of June and then we just got the wrong swing of it right. So it can be tough, but I would imagine this course during the right seasons. 16:58 October or November? Yeah. Oh my God. December, Yeah. I bet today Today though, even though Temple wasn't bad, the wind. The back it it like. Shifted as soon as you made the turn. We made the turn. 17:14 The wind. Just like here we go. It was literally like a switch that flipped at the turn today where we went and got tacos at the turn and then we came out on 10, it was bar 3 and all of a sudden all of us were like, whoa, what? Just like what happened. I will say one of the things that is really nice about out here is even though the wind turned up, when we got to the back, every hole wasn't into the wind. 17:40 It was like some holes the wind was with you, some holes when were against you, some holes Bj's over there like, yeah. Driver really bad today so every hole felt like it was playing into the wind. Yeah, I mean, but to be truthful, the wind was not in your face. 18:00 Every hole. Not every hole. Yeah, I will say not every. Hole. I mean, I hit in 360 yards me. Too Dude that 300 that hole was straight down win. I played, I played really bad today and I had a look at an eagle today like. 18:18 That's even though we were playing against Shaw. We both wanted you to have that. I appreciate that from the boys. This is a big boy course and that eagle been. For those who if if the mic didn't pick that up, Ref tried his hardest to whistle there and he got nothing. 18:40 He got nothing but air. All right. OK, I'm going to bring this up. Check on the course for my Arizona brethren. The course reminded me of whirlwind or southern dunes a little bit out in Phoenix and the the desert is around the course and it's through the course to an extent. 19:00 But inside the ballpark, it's got a lot of trees, it's got a lot of hills, and it makes it feel like you have a manicured experience essentially. Versus they found this course in the desert, which is like you got abandoned or something like that. They're trying to make you feel like you stumbled on a course that's just in the elements. 19:19 Whereas this felt like, oh, this is like a really, really cool resort or nice course that's being taken care of really well. But it's also just in the middle of nowhere at the same time. So I didn't feel like this was like a North Scottsdale type course where there's tons of saguaros and boulders and. 19:37 It's. Still like kind of Fair ways that you can gain on stuff like that. And then the other thing too, I'll say is that the driving range, I was there at 9:00, so I got a lot of time on the. RT time was at noon for those who we haven't said that yet. Yeah, Sean was there. I had no to be. I will say that the the experience out there on the range was so peaceful and I think this is into the second thing I want to talk about for first impressions, which is Borrego Springs. 20:02 For all the things I might knock on Borrego, it is quiet. It is. Like you hear the wind and nothing else and it is peaceful. And I had unfortunately a few Slack messages I had to check this morning and I was a little stressed about work stuff. 20:18 And I went out there and I hit some balls and I immediately zenned out before you guys showed up, so. It's, it's very close to, I know I, I hit the range with all three of you guys when we showed up, but it's very similar to how I felt when I played seven canyons in Sedona. 20:34 Yeah. Shout out crappy crappy skill more on Instagram if you don't follow. Him, follow him go follow him follow crappy well. Hands down one of the most genuine humans on the planet. Playing out at 7 canyons in Stona is an unreal experience. 20:49 The the stillness and the quietness that you experience out there is unlike any other. But this is a very, very close second where there's nothing else going on out here. Like if you wanted to take your phone and put your phone on silent and not listen to music or anything while you're out here, it's just going to be you and the course and that's it. 21:16 And literally only you in the course. There was nobody on the course today. We saw what? Four other people on the course today. And two of those we let them go through. Well, one was the single with his grandpa and the other was another single. We let three groups 3. 21:32 Guys And then we let 2 singles through. There was a guy with his grandpa and there was just a single who was striping that single who passed. Through with and all day we talked about how wild it was not having someone behind you. I kept thinking, like every time we got to green, I would just turn around and look back at the fairway and was like, OK, where's the next group coming up? 21:52 And there's like not a Soul Insight, which was phenomenal. Incredible. We are so used to it as Southern California golfers where we are always playing behind the group in front of us and looking at the group behind us to making sure that we are we're we're maintaining a good pace of play. 22:10 There is not a course that we play that we are not constantly thinking about. Are we managing our pace of play? Great. But it was a incredible breath of fresh air out here saying, hey, if you feel like you're standing over a ball or we want to take extra time to record something on a tee box or stand over a putt or, oh, I mean, I there was a handful of times where we were playing a match like it was Sean and I versus Revan surreal today where it was like, oh, no, we actually let the person who was furthest away from the hole hit first today. 22:46 Like we actually paid. It wasn't ready golf. It was like let's play, just let's golf or what it is we. Had the time to do it, so we did it. It was. Not. It's pretty refreshing actually, Like I found myself like trying to hurry up out there and I would kept looking behind us and it took me a while to like get used to the fact that we can take our time. 23:08 We can. We can enjoy the 1%. 100% So real quick on the Borrego side of things, Kevin texted something when I said the town's empty and he said what town? I stayed here last night and I went out, ventured myself and I asked where, where should I eat tonight? 23:28 And she gave me two options. And I looked on maps and there was essentially four options, I think total that were open. And I went over there, it was a bit dusty, quiet, very eerie feeling a little bit, you know, and got some good service. But like that night I came back to the hotel and I wasn't super stoked on Barranco. 23:47 Like I drove 5 hours for this. I hadn't seen Rams yet. So I'm like, what am I doing out here? You know, I talked to my kid and he was like, I missed you. And I was like, I can't justify why I'm out here right now. It's so after. Today and. 24:03 Then today I will say like it was, this house has been the cherry on top for Rams. I will say, had I come out here, stay the night, played and then drove back tonight or something like that, even just putting aside the fact that you have to drive 5 hours after the round, I still wouldn't have been like, yeah, that was worth it. 24:22 Because living in the desert myself, I have so many other courses. I could have just felt the escapism and go play a course like that. If you're in San Diego, I could totally see how you might want that. But then you have Palm Springs and other stuff too that you could reach, right? So. I feel like this. 24:39 It's closer than palm by like by like 30 minutes, right. But as like leaning on Sean's point a little bit, being a person who grew up in Phoenix, this doesn't feel wide, wildly different than a lot of the courses that we play in Phoenix or in the surrounding like metro area, right? 25:02 Like, this isn't, this isn't like revolutionary in terms of how you felt out on the course today as a as a Phoenician. No, same. Same type of all conditions and stuff. There's a lot of places. Or a San Diego. San Diego. 25:18 San Diego, right? Yeah, We'll, we'll splice it in. This is insanely different than anything we ever play in San Diego. There is nothing like this, right? Maybe like maybe you sprinkle us in when you play like Medeiros. 25:34 Or Mount Wilton maybe. But here's the deal though. I've played a lot of courses in Palm Springs right And so far, like Palm Shoes, Palm Dever, Palm Desert, this is by far pretty legit. 25:50 Yeah. I found myself today comparing this a lot to Palm to PGA West. Yeah, 100%. I found it like, that's just what I thought. Like, OK, it's kind of a course that's out in the middle of nowhere. There's not a lot going on outside of the course and maybe some of the houses around the course. 26:10 I would say that this course might be in a better condition than PGA Wet. It's in really great shape. It's a lot to say better shape than PGA wet it. Got dumped on yesterday, like there was a handful of muddy areas and it got poured on yesterday. 26:27 And if anyone who is familiar with geography in the desert, rain does not do well in the desert because the ground is so firm. It doesn't dry well like it or it doesn't absorb the water. So so that's. That's all floods. 26:43 Really. Is that a segue into the history, TJ? Should we get into this? Dawn, if you want to tell us a little about the history, I think you're the right person to do it. I'm so excited because this is probably Kev's first time hearing the full History of History History part's. Cool, brother. All right, listen to. 26:59 The Do you really? Oh my God, I didn't know if you did it. He's one of He's 1 of 44 the. Best thing is to do it at home, like it's cool to do while you're at work, but it's cool to do it like on a Friday or Saturday at home with a cocktail because it feels like you're just hanging out with the boys or the girls. 27:16 We're, we're not, we're not going to jump into the sponsor segment now, but it is cool that people do enjoy a cocktail with us while we are enjoying a cocktail on the. Speaking of, I don't have a sponsor for this break, so this is brought to you by the need for me to go grab a beer. While you're up, if you could just grab me a beer, that'd be great. 27:36 Thank you, my brothers. All right, we'll dive into the history of Rams around 1933. That's how far back we're going to go on this pod. Let's start with trivia. Right off the bat, 1933, what was this height of no looking room? 27:52 The Gold Rush. Not even close. The. Great Depression. Beginning in 18. 49 a great. Depression. A Great Depression. He said he screwed me. He said he doubled. Down on it. I was like, he's smart. 28:11 I like this guy. That'll take 100 years, 1840. Nine It was a great 49ers. 49ers. Yeah. All right, anyway, go on, Massey. Around 1933, during the height of the Great Depression, two men named Alfonso Bernand and Robert Degiorgio. 28:32 You may have seen the Degiorgio St. we passed on the way. Not the pizza guy. That's the door now. I knew that joke was coming. I knew it was coming. These two guys met each other for the first time in California's Central Valley. They were both in the wine business, and the Degiorgio family was the largest grape growers in the world at the time. 28:52 T JS boomed here. We're going to pause for two. OK, so these two guys, Di Giorgio is the largest grape grower in the world. At the time, they were joining forces in search of cheap land and a warmer climate because they had the bright idea. 29:12 If we grow grapes in a hotter climate, we can have grapes that are ripe earlier in the season, and then we can beat the other people to market with grapes. Oh. Grapes. Grapes are wine. For wine. Would you stay though? 29:30 Would you say that that was a grape idea? This is going to be a tough section on the spot just. Keep going nasty. Don't. We'll cut that. OK. So the first crops to market would command a higher price and potentially greater profit. 29:47 And in the Borrego Valley, grapes would be ready to pick several weeks ahead of other growing areas. And both men had learned of this, basically this land, through an acquaintance. Acquaintance. Excuse me. So it turned out that through the heat, high winds in winter, it actually made growing grapes and Borrego more difficult than they had thought. 30:05 But despite some failures, Bernan had spent enough time in the valley to see its potential as a resort. He began buying up Railroad Inn holdings in the park area and trading them with the state for valley land, as well as picking up property from tax sales and homesteaders who won out as he was buying land in. 30:21 So he started to push people out a little bit. His holding things grew to about 17,000 acres out here in Borrego. 17,000. Yep. OK, so Borrego? Go ahead. Borrego Springs that we've seen so far is not even a stoplight. 30:38 It's a little park called Christmas Park. I'm not hating, I'm just saying if you take in the golf course, oh, but that was like 15 minutes in the. I will say we went into town for dinner tonight. There was not a stop sign. It was a loop. 30:54 There's a loop, yeah, a little roundabout. We saw stop. We're sorry. We saw stop signs. There is not a stop. Light. 17,000 acres. No, this is the international Dark Sky community, so there's no neon or street lights or anything. Like that I gotta turn all lights off it. Yeah, OK. 31:12 So. So Bernan's buying up 17,000 acres. Meanwhile, Degiorgio felt that his family could beat the elements and successfully grow grapes out here in Borrego too. So he and his dad purchased 1200 acres of land from Bernan and that became the first holdings for the company in the valley. Over the years, however, it turned out that Bernan was right and the Degiorgio's only ever had one profitable year in the business from Borrego, all the years they were here. 31:37 Question. What year was it, do you know? This is during night before World War 2. Do we get question? Yeah. Do we know how much they paid for the 17,000 acres? I had that stat, but I don't have it written down. But it was it was not much at all. 31:53 It was pretty cheap. Sale. That's fair though. Yeah, continue. After World War 2, in 1945, Berman announced plans for resort community out here with all the land he bought up. The San Diego Union reported that he was trying to create a San Diego County rival of Palm Springs. 32:12 Vernand gathered several LA investors and incorporated the Borrego Valley Land and Development Company to own the land and handle development and thus created Borrego Springs. Palm Springs. Borrego Springs. Coming together now, right? I see it all. 32:29 So the community of Borrego Springs was destined to be a special place. Berman sought to protect the beauty of the desert through restrictions on development, somewhat of an unusual concept in planning in 1940s. Lot sizes were designed to protect privacy, developers were not allowed to wholesale clear land of its fragile native plants and restrictions of what could and could not be built, and an architectural review board were put in place. 32:54 So he was really trying to make this a place to go basically see nature and escape the city life and feel like you really were in the elements, which is still to this day. Obviously, it does feel feels like that's still the rules. They have hope. Here they do. Yeah. It's still very much the case. However, Vernan ran out of money and would sell his business to Degiorgio at the end of 1954 and over the next decade Degiorgio would build amenities in Borrego Springs to draw people out to the desert. 33:22 I see where this is going. So he he built actually the Deandra Country Club in 1955. That was an immediate success and now he set the stage for an additional valley project which included Rams Hill Golf Club which began construction on the 3000 plus Acre resort in 1982. 33:40 It was to be a semi private club and was designed by Ted Robinson to be a 27 hole layout. TJ, would you tell us more about? My guy, Ted Robinson, RBI Summerfield, we've literally just talked about, this guy is all over it up and down the West Coast. 33:59 He he does it all. Ted Robinson. Yeah, he he's he's the RBI designer. You ever pummeled a ball into the into the foliage in RBI, which is a resort course that's supposed to be easy? I play a lot of tournaments out there. Scrambles. Yeah, it's fun. Is that a humblebride? 34:15 That I felt from you. I like that being honest here. TJ So for the level select episodes, TJ does his own research, OK and he dropped the Ted Robinson designed Rancho Bernardo, he renovated Rancho Bernardo. 34:31 He did not actually design Rancho Bernardo. How do you find this shit further than I do? I hate, I hate that I do level select and I think I find Nuggets and then you fucking body bag me like this. Can you please stop holding the mic? Is he done? 34:48 Sorry Sorrell, do you have to be on my side of the camera with this? I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you help here, though. Someone who did design it originally is someone I always quiz you about. The same guy we always talk about. It's the same guy. Go ahead, Tom Fazio. 35:04 No, no, it's the same person. I'm not talking about Randy. No, it's the same person. It's the same person as Tori. Huh. It's. The same guy who did Tori, who's the son of the other guy, Correct, But I can't. Yes, yes, Bell, it's the Bells. He does listen. Oh yeah, he's. 35:21 A big listener and it shows. You love that long? Time listener first time. Caller. Was still the same drink. All right, so. It's been an hour. 35:41 It tastes like Maple syrup. Oh, with grain alcohol? Wait till you go to sleep. Well, Smokey, we love you though. OK, so Robinson did the design. That layout was love. 35:57 But Degiorgio unfortunately passed away in 1991 and the club eventually changed hands multiple times until in 2007, Tom Fazio was brought in to redesign the course as part of a $65 million renovation by new ownership. It even renamed to Montessoro Golf and Social Club. 36:14 But that only lasts until 2010, when real estate values faced an economic downturn and the course was forced to shut down. Ramsay was placed in exodus mode with little hope of the future. And for more than three years, the horse blade dormant actually turned around. They let the grass all die. 36:31 So like, Nope. Like the horse was closed, nobody played. It gates closed, no one played three years is down, turned to brown, nature took back over and then and then. That was essentially the state it was in until Bill Berkeley, a Rancho Santa Fe real estate investor, purchased the property in the 3000 acres in 2013 for only $842,000. 36:54 Damn. Yeah, he bought. Brands and everything out here for 840, we were talking about lots in this community thinking about buying the entire thing for 842. That was in 2013. We were waiting a lot that. 37:11 Was in 20/14/20. 13 There was a real estate bust and essentially no one was out here in Borrego and then they he bought it he. Could have owned Rams Hill. I could have. Not bought my house and bought this place. Yeah. You live like in Mexico pretty much. 37:32 So it went brown. Three years went by, this guy buys it. The irrigation system had to be completely updated. Sprinkler heads have been sold. Even they're they're like the whole thing had to be redone, not. The sprinkler. Heads the the bunkers and the greens were restored with new sand and seed dining options were added. 37:50 The same Superintendent from before got brought back. He said, hey, you come back get this course back in working order. Essentially you didn't hire someone new. So the guy was still around and said yes, I'll be back and he's re does the course. That included recovering from the loss of 350 trees while teasing out golf playable turf from the dry ground. 38:10 And they actually put in new grass type here because they realized that the salt essentially was killing grass before and it was becoming too hard to maintain, so they put in new grass. I'm going to very quickly interject here. I think we need you and I need to have a greens keeper on the pie, I think. 38:28 I think the greenskeepers, like we talk about horse architects all the time, right? We talked about the bells, we talk about course architects all the time. We talk about cities, we talk about mayors, all this. We talk very little about greenskeepers and I think they are the unspoken heroes of golf course. 38:46 Oh yeah, the unsoen hero. And I think, I think there is, there's a world in which you and I need to bring a few greenskeepers on. I, I would think that there's more than a handful of people we know at golf courses. Just a point that we can bring on, whether it's the guys from Grass Clippings, it's we could probably talk to whoever's over at. 39:08 Goat like I was just gonna. Say we, we, we could probably talk to AZ, we could probably talk to, to talk to John and John. John could bring us, John could bring us in with whoever's over the greenskeeper. We should. I think any greenskeeper would be cool because you're just getting an entire different perspective. 39:24 Oh for sure. And it's. Someone that no one ever talks to really, but they're so important when it comes to like. They are the like. 100%, yeah, 100%. It's almost like science and agriculture. Nutrients. You said science. 39:44 I had to drop nutrients. I feel like you're not. You're not. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. It was just, it was the way that you, the way that you brought it to. The yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good, right. Yeah, sorry. OK, so today, Ramsdale has expensive fairways, elaborate bunkering, the contrast provided by tall, WAVY native grass, and it's endured years of abandonment simply by going dormant. 40:09 So the course actually got the native grass to come back when they built it back up, and now it's won all kinds of accolades. This is actually named the third best resort course in California according to Golf Week, behind two courses you may have seen. Can you name the other two courses? TJ already knows? 40:24 I told them. I talked to Sean earlier about this. Hold on. You other public? Yeah, there's two resort courses in California did. You say that earlier, but that makes sense. That makes more sense now that you said in California. You threw in resort, so that's off the table. 40:41 It's. Got to be it's not above this one. Resort is Pelican a public Is it OK if. Not Pelican. According to Golf Week, this is #3 there's two other and I'll give you a hint, they're next to each other one and. Two. 40:56 One of them. Are they Southern California or Northern? You know these sequences. Spyglass. That's one. Bingo bango. And Pebble Beach Pebble and Spyglass I. 41:12 Always forget Pebble's Public because it's. It's like 8. It's like $800 to get on, but it's public. But it's public. You don't have to. Like you don't have to have a membership. Yeah. Unless. Just for the record guys, it was the the partners that got that right. 41:33 We let you have that. I knew that. We got it right there. A win is a win. Nutrients. All right, so the 3 1/2 acre solar farm on the side of the old 17th hole actually provides enough energy to save Rams Hill $400,000 annually in electricity costs. 41:53 Wait a second hole? They had solar back in 1833. No, confirmed they did not. So how did they have Oh, wait a minute, sorry, got. That got that, Got that. 42:11 All the irrigation water is supplied by 6 on site wells and the clubhouse was refurbished and expanded to 18,000 square feet. And ownership has plans to actually expand the community around the course even further. There's talks of a hotel being built out here. Honestly, OK, there's nothing out here, but if they started putting up like casinos in and out he. 42:36 Wants in and out so. Badly you could have just with your rest of life with the rest of. Life, I will be honest if if we said, hey, there's a casino that we get to go play after this, after we record this plot tonight, that could have changed a lot of people's students. 42:55 But we have the SIM in the garage. Instead we have to go live on the SIM youtube.com slash. I I totally agree. Like if you're, if you come out here like me, I want to take my wife and my son, but it's like they want to, they have to have something too. 43:12 I'm like, let's go to the desert and just I'm going to play golf with you guys hand in the house. She's like cool, what do we do for dinner? I'm like, I don't know there's nothing You got to offer something to the non golfers. So a reason Wienerschnitzel and in and. Out casino, in and out Wienerschnitzel. 43:30 Now we're in business. We haven't gotten a test yet, but if you want to. Pass Top Golf do good out here. No, absolutely not. No, no. You know how much money it takes to run a top? 43:46 Golf. Did they have Top Golf in 1833? OK guys, that was a legitimate question. I forgot that we had Fast forward 2 times, so let's just move on. We're going to end the history right there, actually. I'm just going to. Go to. I have I have one more paragraph to close out, but we don't care about that anymore. 44:03 So just. Going to go to bed. No, actually I have an important job for you. Yes. Scott, let's get into the pros and cons. Let's. Do it. OK, let me. Let you please start us off pros, yes? I got 6 of them. OK, go. The grass is super green in June. 44:22 Yep. The wind works and around your favor. The people in the pro shop were extremely nice. Yes. Confirmed I didn't feel forced anytime on the course. The tacos that we had twice. Talk about the tacos real quick. 44:37 Yeah, you. We should lean into that one a little bit. Can I lean or? Should I no dive in this time? OK, as you guys all may know I am a big guy of food Big guy and I love food. Hello the tacos. You had a few options you. 44:54 Had Hold on, hold on, go ahead. Yes, you had pork and you had chicken. You're you're given the option of one of each or both. The first time we visited I got one of each, but the second time we came around I was dialled on the pork and you got to go with all the dressings and the sauce on the side. 45:16 Definitely a strong, strong pro because Melissa, Melissa, I remember you. He was great. That was her name. What is that? My pro #5 that was 5. That was 5. You need one more. Hang on, I had it dialed up. 45:32 Oh, the pace of play. It felt we were. You said no one was on us all day, right it? Felt like if you go somewhere and you rent out the golf course to play by yourself, did you have the entire golf course? That's what it felt like. 45:48 You weren't rushed. The weirdest thing about the pace of play was I kept looking over my shoulder like like I said, to see if anybody was coming. It's like you were even like, dude, there's nobody back there and keep doing the same thing. It's. Like as, as Southern California golfers, I say it all the time on the podcast where we are just so ingrained to 4 1/2 five hour rounds and just, and just and like you'll play a 5 hour round and somebody will be in front of you the whole time and somebody will be on your ass the whole time. 46:19 Yeah, that's just what we are used to. So it was very weird being out here. We I think we still play the four and a half hour round today. We did not. No in front. We did not. We drove our golf balls on the back court a bunch. Of like citizens. We let people play through. 46:36 We stopped at the, we stopped at the at the Ram Shack twice, We stopped at the turn and we stopped between 14 to 15. We drove the golf cart to our house. Yeah. And we stopped here at the house, literally, and we kept no one behind, like no one behind the. Up. It might be cut from the pod. 46:53 I'm just going to say this, but we literally drove the golf cart to the back of the house. Like if, if the people at Rams tell us to cut this, we're going to cut this. But if this stays in, we were able to drive our golf cart. That's part of the. Selling the house? Yeah. You want to be here? 47:08 It's a good house. It's a great selling point for the house on the Hill was that we were able to drive our carts to the back of the house, grab a few refreshments, grab an uncrustable top sponsorship that we are looking for at Fair Wagers is an uncrustable sponsorship. But old Smokey, thank you. 47:26 But old Smokey Vice, we love you. Uncrustable is still at the top, though. Like Peanut? Butter and Jelly, man, I love you I. Love a Frozen? Peanut butter and Jelly. It was very nice to be able to just take it was the pace of play was. We all those things we did and nobody was waiting on us because there was nobody behind us. 47:45 That was the best part. I real quick, I will just say and one of the things you added with the grass is green. What a what a pro. The grass was great. No, no, no. Like you come out here and the contracts pops against the brown desert, you're like, whoa, this is almost irresponsible how much it feels like they're watering this place. 48:05 And you can tell it's real because my cleats. You made a comment. Yeah. Before we started, you're like, hey, man, did you get new cleats? I was like, no, I washed them. When we finished, they were still the same. So they're not dyed fairways. They're not dyed. Yeah, they're real science. 48:22 Nutrients. I will say if I pop in on a con side there because it is so dry out here somewhat, the greens are fast and they are. And the wind too. I I agree. 48:38 Because they were consistent all the way. Through Why don't you kick us off with other pros let's. Hear some pros from that's. Real, those are some of the high quality greens that we'll probably get to play on being one of the top. 48:53 Courses in top three? Yeah. Yeah, 3 resort courses. I looked. I looked at Golf magazine. It had it ranked as the 93 best course that you can play in America. How? Many. Courses. 49:09 Oh my God, wait. Wait, when did this? When did this turn it a 20? $5000 Pyramid Pyramid scheme. Shut the hell up. So you like? Him. Yeah, yeah. So no, just like that way, yeah. 49:24 You want me to keep it that way? OK, we'll cut that. I. Just wanted to hear his other pros. Yeah, keep going on your pros, pros. Up pro VS on the right. That's true. That's true. No one spoke on that. Yeah, but if you're a legato guy. The same no, no, this station, this has to make it right this season. 49:52 I will buy on my cross if that doesn't make it any no legato. Legato. If you can get all the rage, get all the fucking rage. Like please. But yeah, the practice. You're welcome, Legato. Are a pro. 50:11 We didn't get to experience the shoulder game. Tomorrow. Mythical short game area. But yeah, where is that on the outside? Of the it's direct remember when you guys are like, see that guy back there, he's sitting into us. That's all short game and the IT is just as phenomenal as the. 50:28 Course itself, the mayor of Goat Hill. You're thinking about your Sanjig the not self-proclaimed the Sean Massey proclaimed mayor of Goat Hill. I'm hoping the monitor. To get it he saved in my phone as. 50:44 The mayor, mayor, I still call the mayor every time I see so he's he's there. We were out there two weeks ago, 3 weeks ago, and I was I, I got to ride with him. It's like an honor, but also every other hole. 51:01 Whenever he's like, oh, I got to go see how I'm just like every hole. He's got their politics. He really loves shaking babies, kissing. 51:18 Hands. He's. Like the most genuine person that I've ever met in my life. Big ol Z. Your pro of trophies on the range, the the full range all together is spectacular. 51:34 I will say like from grass to head off of there's definitely spots to chip on. I'm sure we will hop over to the other side where there's an actual short range, but there was a a side flag that we can chip to today and the the putting green was serviceable, serviceable and very well laid out to where it prepared us for what we were going to deal with today. 52:00 Yeah. Matched the Greens on the course it did, which doesn't happen. Often, and it had the undulation felt like. You're going to have to. It did. You got downhill. I putted a three times a lot on the practice screen and I putted 3 times a lot on the golf course today and that's all I can ask for is that it prepared me for what I was expecting to see big. 52:21 Boy course. I think we have to say also free golf on your birthday as a pro A. 100%. How much of A Pro is that? I mean, like, that might be the first time a lot of people come out here. And the replay. What's the Is it free replays? In the summers, I believe. In the summers on your birthday too, right? 52:38 Free replays on your birthday. Don't quote the man, we'll put it in the comments of the video. If it is a free replay on your birthday, it's definitely free. Your round is free on your birthday 100%. 52:54 We know that. That was your first trip, right? It's real. You came out on your birthday. You played as a solo, have you? Finished in like 3 hours. Yeah, wow. What did you do that? Do that so much. Look that did Another kicker though. 53:09 That is another kicker though this could be a con is unless your buddy and your foursome has the same birthday as you, either they got to shut off 270 bucks or you guys can slip it. If your. Friends are good, like anytime you come out and you play Tori as a resident, I. 53:27 Split the. Yeah, we split it. That's nice. Yeah, that's what friends do, you know. Yeah, that's nice. I like. That he he houses me, his wife makes me cookies and he splits the Tories the cookies. Future life. Excuse me? 53:44 Fiance Ashley, I loved your cookies you guys brought. Up you guys were talking about cookies. You didn't get to experience that pro as. Well, there's supposed to be a cookie. At the end of the round, they do a It's like a caramel apple cookie. 54:01 We may. Get it? We should get one. Tomorrow we have to, yeah. That is. We should we if we get a cookie, should we slice in a live cookie review into the pot? Yeah, we could totally do that. Yeah, yeah. OK. But we're not. This might be the cut to the cookie food wise. 54:21 I also got to try the breakfast because I got there so damn early. And I will say I had a Full breakfast. I was going to get the breakfast burrito, but I knew I was going to have tacos later today and I. Sides with the burrito. Dinner tonight, so thank God I didn't get the burrito. That would have been pretty rough on stomach. 54:38 So I got a Full breakfast, just traditional and they waited on me 'cause I was the only one in the restaurant and I felt like I was at like a legit White Lotus type resort where like I was being almost like a problem for them. Like I, I'm sorry that I'm like. 54:54 You had three people taking care of. You. Yeah. But then I realized. You like ask for ketchup and you feel like it's like weird that you ask for ketchup for your breakfast. Like there the whole time, like they had nothing else to do. So they waited on me hand and foot and like had some good conversations and then I chatted with the guys in the pro shop. 55:10 Like everyone is extremely nice. We talked about it earlier, but like staff has to be one of the pros. Like 100. Percent people out here were really, really cool about. It I will say it might be like one of the most equal split pros and cons of a golf course that you will see that like it is a humongous pro if you come in the offseason because you are going to have the staff and the course to yourself. 55:36 The con is that it's going to be 90 plus degrees. Let's let's get into the cons I want to. Hear can I just say something real quick? Yeah, it is a bummer when you go to places that are resorts are never in their peaks in and you go there and they're not attentive. 55:55 This place does a really good job of making sure that they're giving good service even when it's non busy. Yeah, because I've been in, I mean Cabo Cancun, like wherever you go to these resorts and it's non peak and you get service on the wayside because they're like whatever it's not. 56:12 Yeah. And so did a good job of treating you like. Yeah, they're not trying to get you to come back soon. Exactly. OK, it's off on the cons. I can hit you with cons #1 if you stuck at golf, this course is hard. 56:31 I I had some. How to give yourself some credit though? I don't. I don't necessarily. I don't necessarily suck at golf, but out of the group of the four of us, I am the worst. That is without a doubt. If you struggle to get off the tee, if. 56:48 You. You are the only forget how the eagle look today. We talk about this on the pod all the time and it when we when we get to the high handicapper test, it depends upon what makes you a high handicapper, right? Yes, right. And today it was struggling off the tee. 57:04 Today it was getting off the tee, and if you have trouble getting off the tee, this is Desert Target golf. And you got some big boy shots ahead. Of. But that also falls on you because you told me that you realized it but you just choose. You chose to kept hitting driver when you know you shouldn't have. 57:20 On like the 16th hole, yeah, the five, I couldn't get it. I couldn't I. Couldn't get anything to go straight today. Everything felt rushed. Everything was a yank left like today, but like from from like 1:50 and in everything felt great today. 57:39 But I will say that like, I don't know if you have, if you have, even if you're OK off the tee, if you're a person who struggles around the green, greens are fast. There's a lot of undulation. Like I had some good wedge shots today that I felt were good wedge shots. 57:56 And then once I got up to the ball, I was like, I'm not in as good of a position as I thought I was, right? Like or I hit a ton of I had a decent amount of bunker shots today and got out of the bunkers in one, which as a 24 handicap doesn't happen all the time. 58:14 And then I was still left with really dicey putts coming in from that. And all you guys would be like, oh, good out. Like everybody good out, TJ, well done. And then I walk in his butt. I'm like this still might be a three putt from where I'm standing. Yeah. This is a really difficult golf course. 58:32 Some might say it's only for the big boys and it's it's, it's a lot and there's there's no way around it. Like there's no, there's no way of getting around it. There's no, there's, there's a handful of force carries where if you want to play an iron off the T, you can't play an iron off the T, but you might be playing into the wind. 58:54 You can hit a 5 off the T, but then you're still going to be facing like 190 in. So what do you do right? Like do you force driver And I mean. I think you would rather take the 190 in versus hitting three from the T. In hindsight, sure, right. 59:10 I I think yeah. But do you? Think without the win. I saw how the win. OK, let me ask you, I'm going to give you a this or that, OK? Is Rams easier or tougher than crossings? That's a great comparison. 59:28 That's a phenomenal question, this. This is one of the things that I really, really liked about Rams Hill today is it's got a if you, if you're good, if you can find the fairway, which my driver was promoting, one of the strongest things in my bag today. 59:46 It was total plug. I'm just saying no, you can sure, if you're finding the fairway, a lot of those park floors you can go drive just because the way the wind was set up and some of the holes you're going driver with a short wedging or like a short iron in and it's gettable. 1:00:05 But if you're not, like PJ was saying. It is really tough, but of course, definitely it forces you to place you wouldn't normally play just because it looks it looks different. So you're answering my question, crossings or Rams, which is harder overall? 1:00:24 The RAM. Rams is harder. And I think crossings, there's a lot of you're off the mark, off the tee box you're. Fucked feels tighter across there. Here when the side like you are able you can find your ball punch it. 1:00:46 Out. One thing I will say though is any course is going to be hard if you don't hit it well on. You're not. Wrong. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. I guess it's it's hard because like I hit every fairway. 1:01:03 No what I. Was what I was going to. Say, is that you and I both hit two incredible desert. Shots. Oh my God, you, you know, no, before, for the record, I had T JS back and I looked at Sean because you were damn near in the cul-de-sac on the opposite side of the desert. 1:01:24 I was. In my house, I was in someone. 'S. Bed Sean in the eyes and I said this is going to be spectacular and what did DJ do? He gets up there and he rips his shot. I lose it in the sun and I look at Kevin and Kevin's like doing this. 1:01:39 I grew up the project. Like running away from the green and the ball drops and checks like 8 or 9 feet from the cup and I'm like holy smokes. Yeah, that did happen. And then you hit one, you had an incredible up and down. From that today, you know what you did right before that shot Chuck the club. 1:01:57 I we're going to cut that from the pot, but. I did in that ball that I hit, I saw it literally going to the wind and just freeze. Dude, it's the the wind out here is so strong that it can it can make an insane difference for the help where you can hit a really bad ball and it can stand it up for you. 1:02:22 Or there's that downhill par 4 that I had the eagle look on and I hit it was. A par five? Yeah, it was a par. Five I hit I hit driver Finn's Aven Iron and had an eagle look at and that's but that's that's that's that's how the the cookie crumbles realistically is if the wind flows with you or against. 1:02:48 You Bruce Almighty ochre. Great movie. I know that that seven I saw I was standing behind him and I it disappeared out of view and I was like, OK, he'll be like right in front of the green and won't be too bad. And then we get up there like, who's that by the pin? 1:03:04 So I saw it running the whole time, like because we were down on the bottom of the hill and I saw it come off thin. But the way it, it hit like, so the the cool thing about Rams is you can hit certain areas and that ball is either going to skip and take off. Yeah, it hit like perfectly on a down slope and it caught a kick and it just wrapped up around the green. 1:03:24 It went up for the bunker and the way it was set down, I was like, Oh my God, this may get within like 5 feet and it'll be like 12 feet for each. I could walk this, this, this is a, this is a very thin line on a pro or a con is I can walk out tomorrow and hit all the same clubs that I hit today, wildly different. 1:03:44 Wildly. Yeah. Yeah, really good. Same club choice but better execution. With like this, like I could I like, I like realistically, if we wrote it down today, I I probably shot like a 110 or a 115, right? But I can hit those. Same exact clubs throughout the entire round tomorrow and shoot like. 1:04:05 And I think, TJ, that's why I think you're kind of doing yourself not a favor here by admitting that Rams could be a lot easier than crossings because. I. Agree. Yeah, because if you do have the shots right now, then Rams is a little bit more forgiving. Crossings has some punishing holes where you like, think you hit a great shot and then you didn't. 1:04:25 If you, let's just say you, you know, you're lessened out and say we go out tomorrow morning, in your first three holes, your driver's not working. You you just put your driver away if you play that the rest of the round, whatever club you choose, not your driver. 1:04:41 I think you shave 8 to 9 strokes automatically. In theory, yes. Did I hit my 5 iron that much better? Today 5 Iron wasn't more confused in in theory. Yes, in practice, no, I did not hit my 5 iron any better than I hit my driver today. 1:04:59 Bring back four hybrid. But but what I will say is that like getting on the green and the three putts are still probably going to be 3 putts regardless of all the shots that I get in. There was more than enough times today where I respected the fuck out of a putt and hit it short because I was really worried that that pot was going to D greet. 1:05:24 This course does get in your head a little bit. 100% it does. That's. What I mean like when we talk about cons, that's a huge one. Yeah, I had I Speaking of the pro con line, I I love courses I've said on this pod that make me think, right? But I don't like courses that make me think this is going to be near impossible. 1:05:41 Like where I'm like why hit this shot? This feels dumb almost and there was only one hole today that made me feel like that. Can you guess which hole? Hang on. I'm trying to think of what I know exactly what hole it is. There's one hole today where I was like, this feels like no matter what I do, I'm probably not going to. 1:05:56 Be was it an issue #2. Because I thought about the putt that I had on hole #2 where I had to, I was on the green and I had to hit it over that Ridge. And however you had a chip, you were off the green and you had a chip. And I was like, I either come up way short of this butt or I'm off the green on this. 1:06:17 Butt yeah, it was 18th. The Bunker. Dude the landing area is so narrow in 18 and then you got the water right and then the hole bends around the water right. All the way. All the way and it's like there's you're not going to get there in 2 like the other par fives were. So you're, you know, you're going to have to lay up again. 1:06:33 And sure, I could have played that hole much better than I did, but the whole time I was on the T box in 18, I was like, I feel like the no matter what I do here, I'm this is going to be a stupid shot. Like I'm either going to have a three wood just to lay up or I'm going to have to like try and thread. The the hardest hole and it's. 1:06:49 Worse, I don't know, but for with the wind, with the wind whipping today and what that was. The hardest hole, in my opinion, for all of us. Today was wild because the wind, like I remember we played 16 and it was or the 16th hardest hole into the on the course and I think that was 12, maybe 13. 1:07:08 It was the 16th hardest or 16th easiest hole in the course. It was 16 handicap. Well, we played it into the wind and I remember thinking this is a short par 4 but it might be the hardest. Hole in the course, right? It means it's the third easiest hole in the course, by the way, if it's a 16. I'm looking. 1:07:26 Up OK. I have two other clones, by the way, so location, it's a little rough. Yeah, location's got to be a con. Go ahead the. Second hardest hole on the course. Makes a. Lot of sense what's what's what's 1 'cause I like I said, I I I put it on the green and I almost I thought about de greening on a putt. 1:07:49 My other con is the rates were as high as $222.00 tomorrow in the middle of the summer in June. Now think about how many people we saw out there today. 222 bucks you'd still charge. We saw to. Get people to go. We saw four other golfers today. 1:08:05 Yeah, I checked the rates tonight. So like, Oh no, that just seems like even courses out by me and Scottsville are charging way too much money. They're not charging 2/22 right? Now if I offered it for 120 or 100, there'd be more people out here. I think so, yeah. 1:08:20 Like if you, if you, if you're scouting out, like I want to get out there and you see it's 222 and you check the weather and it's going to be 100°. I wouldn't come out. No. Yeah, maybe. We know in Arizona, like when the triple digits start, the rates got up and adjust like right, you got to figure that out. 1:08:39 In Arizona for Arizona golf, I have a hard time seeing triple digit temperatures and paying triple digit prices. That's a good rule of thumb. I like that. Yeah, fortunately that's the case. You know, we talked about grass cutting as well on this. They have monopoly on the market right now with night golf and when it it gets hot there's literally nowhere else you can be. 1:09:02 It's either top call or grass clippings. Give me grass clippings so even been. In the day they charge 20 something bucks in at night right now they still won 130 bucks. Oh my. God, I'm turning the same day in your rate because everyone knows that's the only time you want to go so. 1:09:19 It's 120 grass clippings out of. Internet right now it is. Take my money because. You know what I'm doing right now, Rob? Yeah, I got you by the box. All right, we, we're our 12 in here. So we're going to we're going to jump to the actual must play test. 1:09:37 Yeah, it's about time to do it. What do we got to talk about that? I will. Let me jump in first. Oh, you're talking about Vice. We're going to talk. About vice, of course. We're going to talk about Vice. Before. We get into the must play test. We're going to hear more again about our sponsor for today's episode, VICE. 1:09:54 But before we cut to that. A little old Smokey. A little old Smokey, I hope if you're watching at home like Rev does, you know, sipping something, enjoying this. It's my Friday night when Kim and Lincoln go to bed You. Feel like you're hanging with us? Please leave us a comment. Yep, actually. 1:10:10 Oh yeah, that's perfectly baby. The salty caramel is gone. We're moving on to the Blue Flume, Blue Flame Blue. Flame. Cheers boys. Cheers voice. Shout out to Vice Phil. We love you here to see you, Phil. 1:10:28 On to the must play test. Yeah, I want to talk a little bit more about today's sponsor, Vice Drink Ware. Vice was created with a simple goal to recount and celebrate the memories we make with each other on the golf course. Because let's be honest, our favorite rounds of golf all finish at the 19th hole where we recount the shots throughout the day with a well crafted drink, your favorite cigar and probably a few more gambling games at the table. 1:10:50 And the 19th hole Vice kit is going to have you covered. It's got everything you love from golf, spirits, cigars, gambling that you're going to need to get that after round party started. So they offer custom glassware. It's also going to include a coaster ball, markers, lighters and dice for a little bit of gambling. 1:11:08 Sean, I know we just got some a must play one sent over to us. What are your what are your initial thoughts? I think you've got it there with you. Yeah. Yeah, the packaging was amazing. I for anyone watching, he has this really cool rocks glass cover that comes out with the glass in the center and it just elevated the experience Before I even took a sip. 1:11:30 I just felt like I was excited to put something nice in here. You know, when you get a glass and you're like, this doesn't deserve this. It deserves the good stuff. And so that's what I had on our first one and it has our logo right there on the front and it just looks amazing. Yeah, I the, the, the custom etching that came through on the glasses is perfect. 1:11:48 The ones that we have currently are the one under that's just going to be just the glass and then they go all the way up to five under where as you step up through the each individual kits, they add another thing into the package. So if you want the full experience with all the stuff that we talked about before, that's going to be the five under. 1:12:04 And we really think it's a great gift for either your next buddy's trip, golf outing if you're looking to provide a special gift, or if you're running like a corporate event and you want to put your company's logo on there and give them out in swag bags. They're going to be great. They can do all that custom etching for you. So if you want to get your own custom glasses built or order one of our own, you're going to head over to vicedrinkware.com. 1:12:25 That's going to be Vyce Drink ware.com or for everyone else who wants to look at the must play ones, we're going to include a link down here in the description. Head over there and keep the good times rolling. Let's get into the Must Play test. TJ and I have devised an objective test here of 10 questions to determine if a course is a must play. 1:12:43 The course must score a six out of 10 to be up for debate or get a 7 out of 10 or higher to automatically earn our coveted Must Play status. Now today, since we have 4 guests, we're doing something here for the first time. 22 guests, people. Excuse me, TJ and I have each chosen 5 questions that we're going to be the tiebreaker on, and if we split down the middle, whoever is the designated tiebreaker for that question gets to the side if it passes or fails. 1:13:11 What if we have this tiebreaker answer? No, if two people go one way, 2 the other way, I thought. They're going to jump. So question one, the Augusta test. I am the tiebreaker for this. Is this course easy to get a tee time on? 1:13:28 Does it have a straightforward booking process and are there times available the week of your intended play? Can I leave this off? We're going to like actually. Leave this off because we don't want to tip our caps on who the tiebreaker. Is whoa, I was invited and I didn't have to do anything, I just had to drive. 1:13:44 So I don't think I can answer this honestly so all. Right. I mean, based off of even what Sean said today, they said we could go out whenever we wanted, so it's pretty easy to get a tea time. I've booked a few times separate from this trip and there's a lot. 1:14:02 There's I checked tonight and there's times tomorrow anytime you want to go out. Really. Yeah. Yes, I. Like that, we have a tea. Time at 10 AM tomorrow, but we can go out at 838-4059 all the way up until our. Do we think December, November, when we were talking about like it's going to be beautiful out here, is that still just as easy you think? 1:14:23 I think it's going to change. It's AI mean I my birthday is in December, so that's when I came and there if you book far enough in advance, it's pretty easy. But even when I came out here, it was the same experience. 1:14:40 There was not a lot of people on the course. OK. On a week. Who to know Who to know, though? Who to know, though long? Pass. I think everyone's a pass here. I I think it's a pass. I think it's far enough off the beaten path where it doesn't matter if you want to play, you can play whenever you want to play. 1:15:04 Yeah, I think it's. I think so. OK, so we're one for one question 2 bang for your buck test, TJ. Here is the tiebreaker. Is this golf course worth the rate you pay? Do you feel like this course is good value during peak season? So let's say November, December. 1:15:20 Do you remember what you It was free? It was your birthday. It was free. I mean that. Yes, that playing do it though. No, I feel like you got to play. Hold on though, it's a free round. You're the tiebacker, so you decide what you want to do. Your house offers free golf on your birthday. 1:15:38 JC used to, but I mean JC, they cut that. OK for for our listeners who want to play a day other than the one day year that's free, is this a bang for your buck? I'm. Going to let we have to let the guest go because I'm the, I'm the, I'm the tiebreaker on this. 1:15:57 I can't say anything. When you think about all of the awards and like, accolades the chorus has, it's top one. Yeah, I think it's one of those that you have to play at least once and anywhere else, how will you're paying, what, 608 hundred? 1:16:16 Any top 100 course, you're going to have to pay a little bit. Worth it at least. I'm going to follow it and this was going to get into another segment that we have when it comes to like merch and pro shop. But a course is worth it if I'm buying a pin flag from there a flag pin. 1:16:37 You still don't not be. I'm just going to roll. You got to know what you're talking about. If I buy a pin flag from your course, that means it's worthy of whatever offering. So OK, in my opinion, it's. Did you buy 1 today? 1:16:53 A. 100% you should. Go get it and. Hold on. We we haven't gotten to the Jones yet. We haven't gotten to Jones's yet. OK, True. OK, I am going to say fail and I'm going to make this kind of interesting here when it gets to TJ. 1:17:12 Only reason I'm saying fail is I'm speaking from someone coming from Arizona who gets desert golf like this where I live and 222 right now in June. I, I think honestly that gets you on every course. BBC Scottsdale, True North Boulders, any of those courses and those are all minutes from town. 1:17:37 Everywhere else you can be in Phoenix out here, it's like, OK, I'm going to go all the way out there. I wouldn't like to see a price that starts with A2 in it in in June. So for me it's a fail for that reason because even just driving out here, I was like, that's a steep price if I'm being honest, especially when you start turning in Borrego and you're like, there's nothing out here but. 1:18:01 From the time you got here yesterday, total the time right now. Yeah. Would you pay $220 to experience this? No. Oh, you mean the house? Everyone's recording a podcast out here with the boys. 1:18:16 You. Mean like the whole. Scenario. Oh yeah, of course, of course. Did you hear him at first? He's like. No, I thought you meant like. I thought you meant like. Just of course, again can. I can I can I tie a bow on this real? Quick. So what I'm going to say native Arizonan. 1:18:41 This course is not anything phenomenally special as a native Arizona, but you drove 5 hours to get here. I did. So it is you made a special trip to come out here and fail this golf course. 1:19:03 Not fail this course and it's going through the whole must play test. Thank you very much. All the bang for the buck as a San Diego 3-4 years running, this is vastly different than anything that we experience in San Diego. 1:19:24 And for what I looked at for 8:30 tomorrow morning, that is less than 200 bucks, which is a lot of golf in San Diego right now. We are still in a somewhat peak season. You might play somewhere inland that has no coastal views. 1:19:44 That is an OK golf course that. Is how much would you pay for Tori right now? If you could get on Tori, that's different. So with the with our resident rate or non resident rate are we talking about? Resident Tori Well, he said San Diego so. Tori as a resident is always under 100 bucks for us. 1:20:03 Right, and that's a whole different argument. So I text you, hey, what are you doing this weekend or next weekend? And I go, I have a Tory tee time versus I have a Rams Hill tee time. Which one are you excited about? Hold on, though. That pulls into the Augusta test because that pulls in if we can find a tee time this weekend. 1:20:24 What if he already has it? Though Yeah, let's say I have it. Which one you more? Which one are you more likely to take? Don't ask me if I want to play here or Tori, that's a dumb question. Because it's Tori. I think don't. Question. Who would think Rams because only because I could play Tori whenever I want the opportunity to come up to Rams, you can. 1:20:45 Play Tori whenever you want, though you have to find a tea time in Tori. Or advanced. Book or advanced book? So you can, you just have to pay for it. But that's Tory, not. What? What's your vote on this question? Tiebreaker. I passed. This course. OK. 1:21:01 I passed this course because it is under 200 bucks, it is around the same price point as what I expect in Arizona, and it is just as good of a course, if not better than what I expect from those similar Arizona desert Target golf. 1:21:22 Courses. OK, so we are officially one for two. That's the first. Oh no. Excuse me, two for two. You just confused me. No, we're 2 for two. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Can we get a tap sheet over here Big Brother? It's fine. It's. All OK, we got. 1:21:40 It it's all. Sorry. Sean Oh, you want me to keep it for you for two question 3 Iverson tests? Talking about practice. I know you want it so. 1:21:55 Bad. When I first, when I first discovered y'all and you guys queued that up, I was like. This guy knows. Yeah. So TJ is obviously the tiebreaker here. 1:22:12 Does this course have good enough practice facilities? Would you spend time warming up or just head for the bar before the round? Oh. Kevin, go ahead. If I would come here 3 hours or I would come here 4 hours today just to get to use the practice at any public chorus or beauty that you play. 1:22:35 You're not going to get these conditions, these the quality it's it's a pass from. One 100%. I mean even though we got here at you got here at 9. I don't know what the range is like when you were out there empty, but when we got there it was full based open probing ones, fully loaded. 1:22:59 The range was not all like lined up and we didn't even really go to the trucking area, but from the range and the putting green. Is there like a better feeling of for the rain at least when you walk up and you see the pyramid of balls, the balls in the bucket, and you realize that you don't got to go pay for a bucket. 1:23:22 It's just there. It's special. It's so special. Then you're not on mats, you're on grass and you're like, OK, this is going to be fun. Like, because it makes the guys that won't belong to a club feel like they belong. Just a little taste. Of what it might be like. This, yeah. Yeah, when I think about this test like the the Holy Trinity, it's not 3, but the Holy Trinity of this test is 3 balls, grass range, shipping area and putting grief like those are the four that I think about that like make this test a full exceed the holy. 1:24:02 Square. Yeah. Holy Square, the holy rhombus and and this one hits it all right. Like there's only a handful of courses that really fully hit that. We usually say if if they hit three out of four, they usually still get a pass, but this one hit on all four. 1:24:20 Yeah, I'm a pass as well. It's a, it's a unanimous pass. I think we're. Off, all right. So we're probably 3 for 3/3. For three. I think I think it might be the first course that's ever hit 3 for three right at the gate. From what I have recalled, I want to. Say goat pass 3 for three on this one. 1:24:38 The Mayor's thanks again. Did practice? You might. I think you're right actually. Question for the Jonesy test, could you see yourself TJS tiebreaker on this one again? By the way, could you see yourself spending $100 in merch in their pro shop? 1:24:53 Do they have the logo or peril worth wearing? Yes please. Merch started with flag pin slash pin flag. So I'm kind of biased because I am not a when I I buy one thing and one thing only. 1:25:12 Like I'm not flag pin. Unfortunately there range from either like 4. I think today I would still train or the embroidered. I don't know what the price of which was, but it was 45. I don't really ever buy a hat because I have fucking a million hats. 1:25:29 I don't buy polos because. We've all seen your garage. Yeah, I don't I buy like your stuff, so I'm not going to go in there and buy like a bunch of stuff. So I think it'd be unfair if I was shirt guy. I do like the Rams, the logo and especially if you're Ala Rams fan and you're a golfer. 1:25:47 I. Mean like. The logo, I think it's a cool logo, but as a person, personally I couldn't spend $100 here unless the flag payment was 100. 1:26:02 Bucks so those who want to see the logo. Yeah, there you go. Flash it. Surreal. I wouldn't spend $100 anywhere, so this this. That's that's fair. But. When we were walking through the pro shop earlier, you heard me say like, oh, that shirt's sick, I'll buy that. 1:26:22 Yeah, I usually go for the ball markers. I did. Buy one last time I was here so. So if we can take away the Lusher cab, Kevin? Pointed something out though as we were walking out and started to interrupt. They do their own. 1:26:40 Like stamping. Yeah, in the pro shop they had everything out there. So if you buy a ball mark and you want to get it. They would like they would put at Rev Mac on the back of the ball Mark. I should get that tomorrow and maybe do a give. So that does that does that if. 1:26:56 We can remove the $100 like minimum. Can't remove that from. Can't remove that from this question. Yeah, let's say you're coming in town from Canada, eh? And you love the good polo and the good golf ad. 1:27:16 And you got to get we know you love teas and you didn't know they were free on the golf course, would you? Buy I would buy some souvenirs for like from here. Yeah, yeah. You would? Yeah. OK. I spent a lot of time this morning in the pro shop fair. 1:27:35 Fair, fair. They're wager. And TJ has a gift card tomorrow that I think we're trying to do image on there's. Some damage on write write whatever you want in the comments and we'll I'll drive backing on Maya for you if you if you want to comment on this top vote. 1:27:55 The top boat fits it. Seriously, I'll figure it. Out. So am I not spending some of your gift card money tomorrow? Because I was going to say I have 100 queued up to spend tomorrow. I forgot about the gift card money after I purchased that PIN flag and he's like, no, come back tomorrow. 1:28:12 I was like, I just want to get out of the way. And then he brought up and then I was like, Buck. Yeah, I saw some polos in there that were pretty sick and then I saw the stamping as well. And then this is a nice touch that like Go Hill has dog haulers and stuff, you know, that I thought were like really cool. 1:28:30 Like I love to get a dog hauler for goat. So I was looking for like ever since then I've been like, what does something have that I haven't seen at some other courses? Right. Because everyone's got your gloves, your balls, your. Bags. Bags or everything else. They had sunglasses. 1:28:47 What? I had not. With a with a with a logo on it. Yes, I hadn't seen it in most pro shops. I've never seen pro shops and have sunglasses. And I liked them. I mean, I had some knock arounds today that were actually pretty slick and I think I was pulling off. 1:29:02 Shout out, knock around. So you know, I couldn't explain this. I'm a pass. So you passed. You passed. I'm a pass. I'll I'll make this brief since it doesn't necessarily matter. 1:29:21 I think the logo is good. Not great, but it's good and it is off enough of the beaten path where you want to let people. Know that you were here. 1:29:40 That's true. People recognize the logo out here. I remember playing with Cam when we played Corey Pines with Cam and Cam was all about the goat Hill lope and I said oh. Rams or goat? Rams when we played, sorry, we played Corey Pines with. 1:29:56 Yeah, you said goat though. That's what I'm trying. To OK, Sir, it's. Been a long day. I don't know if you hear my voice from the start of this podcast. I'm losing my voice. Yeah, we're wagging in that big fella. 1:30:13 You call me everyone. What's that? From It's an Instagram. Video Sorry, I'm not a big social media guy either way. I feel like coming out here and having something with the logo on it holds a little bit of place of saying, hey, I drove out there and I played that course and I made the trek to get out there and I said, hey, I'm going to go play that course. 1:30:40 And it's a nice fucking course. And I wanted to make sure that I bought something from that course. Whether you spent 100 bucks on a head cover or you spent 100 bucks on a ball marker and a hat, T-shirt or whatever, I think people want to buy something from out here to let other people know that they came out. 1:30:59 Yeah, I agree. Yeah. OK. So 4 for four here, strong start for Rams. Question 5 here. I'm the tiebreaker, the buzz worthy test. Are there multiple holes worth talking about? Does this course have more than one hole that a group would want to immediately go play again? 1:31:17 Now in this case, we're in person. I'd like to hear from you which two holes you would want to go play again. OK, you can just, you can describe them, describe them if you want to, right off the bat #14 Kevin and I had even longer God of the year. 1:31:33 Pretty golfer it was. Mine was like 360. Kevin's was 370. I can say but. I had 50 in to the green and I bogeyed it because the greens are tough. So you want to. Go. I wanted to leave it short and I chunked it and then my second, my third shot, I put it past and I was coming down that hole. 1:31:55 I'm looking forward to playing tomorrow, but the wind was in our favor on that hole. That's the only thing, like a lot of the holes that you could go after today. The wind was in our favor on the par fives and the par fours that are drivable. 1:32:12 The wind was in our backs, which made it fucking awesome like. I don't know if this is the 2nd hole you're going to stay, but the par three we set up the 8th Cam on. I want that back so bad. I don't want to fucking par. I think you're talking about 10. It was, yeah. 1:32:29 It was right after the turn, yeah. It was like 130 yards. It was like nice and cute. Yeah, the one that. Made that whole I think. Yeah, because it was like a 175 ish. 1:32:46 It was like 13140. I know it's just number. 10. I don't know if I'm talking about 10 or not. It's the one that like I was standing behind the Bush filming TJ and then we it was a downhill. It's nine. It's 9, not ten. And was the one who had. 1:33:01 All the golf balls playing out, it was. 9, I want 9 back. I want that back, yeah. 9 was playing 126. I think when we measured it was 133. We all hit like. Pitching wedge on that hole, and we all would love to not chunk A pitching wedge on that hole. 1:33:18 TJ, I want you to start on this. Are you a failure? I'm. Going to be honest, if it was not today and we had not played that hole no less than four hours ago, I think that this course is a fail on the buzzword. You wouldn't remember which holes or any of this. 1:33:34 I think when you and I talk about this and you and I are golfers through and through, not Phoenician, the golf course, Phoenician as Phoenix. You claim to be both here, which, by the way, you gotta choose one, yeah. San Diego, Now you gotta claim. 1:33:50 You gotta claim I want a flag right now. Where are you putting it in this? Is now or never? What is it? Going to. Do guys, I can't. I can't. I can see the level. I love my San Diego born and raised fiance but guys I can't do. 1:34:08 This How long have you lived in San Diego? Four years. OK, now I live. 34 years in. Area. You're not there yet? You'll get there. But I played a lot of golf. I played a lot of golf in both. That's a real hard problem. So you claiming as a Phoenician or as a San Diego right now? 1:34:28 As a Phoenician, I don't remember any of these holes. Like it's Rev Rev. I swear all my life I would, I would swear up and down Rev as a as a Phoenician, I would swear up and down to you. And surreal right now that none of these holes that we played today ain't shit compared to what we play in Arizona. 1:34:47 Aggressive did. I'm not fucking with you. This isn't beer. This isn't whiskey. These are normal holes in Arizona. Yes. Guys, this is my podcast. 1:35:10 What about this? I live in fucking Wisconsin and I've never played San Diego or Phoenician whatever the fuck. You so so we talked about this on the pod if you are having people come visit from out of town. 1:35:25 I would bring them. Here, would you, you, you bring them to some course, right? They come here, they can name at least two holes that they're like, Oh my God, I would love to come back and play these two holes again. How many times did I fucking turn around and say like this hole was fucking awesome. Our God I would love to do this hole again. 1:35:42 At least like 8 or 7. Leave the mic between you. The audio I'm going to have to normalize on this podcast is insane. This has to be important if he's fucking gripping it like my. 1:36:00 No. So what I will say is that regardless of where I live, if you are from the middle of America, you're going to think a lot of these holes run together. Run together. OK, so you're a fail. 1:36:15 I have. A fail. OK, Kim. Can I just? Can I just? You're a path. What are your? What are your tools? One where we bombed. It like 400 yards. There. 1:36:37 Was another. DJ and a cookie a. Cookie. A beer and a cookie, I think. I broke my kid, that's what I was saying. What's that? There was another drivable par 4. 1:36:54 On the front of the back because there was like 3 on each. I was like, oh this one was on the back if you hit the. Square I was like I. Put it. Like. Right in front of the grid. 1:37:11 Yeah, we're doing a live. Stream later tonight. What about that cookie? All right, you're pass. 100% pass. OK I'm a fail. I can't wait to go to a Phoenix and shit love. To have you guys. 1:37:32 Fucking. Shit. Hole idiot. The holes were fun, but they're like none of them were signature. No dude, no Rev. This is not a unique golf course. 1:37:53 It's unique to San Diego, but it is not a universe golf course. So it's not unique to somebody from Nebraska or Louisiana or Florida or. Oklahoma, PJ Right. If we went out, it's real. If we went out and played Southern Dunes tomorrow, you'd be like, oh, this reminds me of Rams Hill, so it's better. 1:38:12 Not unique to people from like Nebraska or Oklahoma or Louisiana like because you're only considering California versus Phoenix. Let's move on. Let's move on. 1:38:28 OK, First blemish. Yeah. 4 for five. Question six. Yeah, the glizzy test TJS tiebreaker here. Does this course have good food at the turn? Are you eating here or packing your own snacks? 1:38:47 Why don't the Glizzy boys go first? The guests. No, I mean that. So I will say this, I'm not really much of an eater. 1:39:12 What you just said on the podcast. Made this my favorite podcast ever that isn't alone. So the first time you got tacos, I totally forgot to look at the other food menu because I was so distracted by the free fucking tacos. 1:39:28 So I got a drink, I got free tacos. And she's like, do you have a dad? All this stuff, dude. I was like, yes. Truly one of those my eyes are up here kind of situation. Yes, but more toward the food not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Melissa, I love you so. And then when we came. 1:39:45 Back the second time I was like. Wait a minute, I actually need to see what if these free tacos weren't here, what would be available to the big fella? And there was some pretty good snacks on the on a roster that I would eat daily, the Rams Hill Dog Beef Jerky. 1:40:04 Yeah. Candy bars, Pretzels. Uncrustable. That's good. Go on gig. Champs and Tacos. Protein bar. Free tacos. Yeah, not to mention they had a full bar at the turn. 1:40:23 They did. They had every water drink. They had beer, they had sodas. They had whole liquor above room temperature water that you need to get ice first before you get the water. TJ made that very clear. Yeah. Pro move get the ice first so your pass. 1:40:40 My God, I can't wait to go back there tomorrow. I think tomorrow when I go back there, I'm going to try, I'm going to take a different hat. So when I get my 2 tacos I'm going to go to the cart and change my hat and then I'll be like, you know, can I get two more tacos and try to confuse her? 1:40:57 I don't think that they would be mad if you asked for multiple tacos. Anymore also that would not confuse her. I think Melissa is the same guy you might. Be a little. Unique looking if I'm putting it nicely, Yeah, no, it's because of your biceps. 1:41:16 It's just use actually. Is what unique? You know, or maybe I'll wear a pillow and underneath it I'll wear something different, like tighter. Or just say. Like a page. Like a page? Maybe Spheronac? Outfit like a page spheronic. 1:41:31 Onesie surreal. What, what are your thoughts here on, on, on the on the glizzy test? All right. The free tacos are sick, right? Of course, being from Southern California, I think we can all see those tacos are like, they don't compare to like real. 1:41:48 Are they, are they mid? Are they mid? Compared to like LA tacos or San Diego tacos. But they're free. But they're free. This is the Glizzy test. They didn't even have hot dogs available for us today. You said it wasn't available. 1:42:05 Yeah. So how wasn't it they were out? What about if you plug tomorrow with a? Revisit. So it's tough because the Glizzy test is named Glizzy test, but we're not necessarily judging hot dogs. We're judging the menu. We're judging the menu as return. 1:42:21 OK Massey, I want to hear yours. It's real. What are you? Are you a pass or a fail? You can also do a half point if you're on the fence. 1/2 point don't get half for. The free tacos. So we're at 1 1/2. 1:42:37 If they have hot dogs available tomorrow I'll go to. Full point. OK, so we have to revisit this door. We're going to splices it maybe with live foot. Shrimps are real from this yard. OK, agree with you on the tacos were mid or whatever we're saying. 1:42:56 Yeah, I know you would have preferred it in and out. Double double, double, double, right double, double. But I'm going to, I'm going to start by saying why I am a pass for the glossy test. OK, here's the first reason. Free tacos. 1:43:14 Now if they had tacos at the turn I had to pay for, even with the tacos I got today, I'd still be like tacos at the turn. How many courses do you know that have tacos at the turn? Huge plug for tacos at. And then I and then I go. At tacos at the turn. Yeah, then I go, oh, and they're free. 1:43:32 That's pass. That's easy as that. In, not only did you get it once, you got it twice, yes. You got 2 passes. You beat you beat me to the to the extra pass was that you can stop and get tacos between 9:00 and 10:00 and then 14 get tacos between 14 and 15. 1:43:53 So you get you don't have to eat lunch out here. Andrew they're not unpleasant about it. They're welcoming you like you need tacos. Yeah, they weren't upset about Melissa. Shout out Melissa. They were not upset that we passed by twice, They were not upset that we asked for all the things. 1:44:12 They were not upset that they had to come. Out of the little shack, no. Or help us or anything. If you take anything away from this pod, give Renee and Melissa a raise. Yeah, A. 100% percent screw surreals half point. This is a pass you should have. Passed All right, so man, it's doing it's doing good here. 1:44:30 It's 5 for six. Our previous best scores go to eight points, by the way. Okay. So just putting that out there, questions to have in the Marshall test? Never heard of Worm? Does does this course have a decent pace of play? Can you relax? 1:44:45 Oh quick round here. If you have somewhere to be after. If you have somewhere to be after, where the hell are you going? If you have somewhere. To be after, you're not going to go there because you're having such a good time taking it. No, you're not going to go there because you're an hour and a half away from. 1:45:01 Wherever the fuck you're going. Does that factor into this question? It's the Marshall, not what do you have. No, you have if if you have thought about it, you know that you are coming far out of the way, right? You are not we've. 1:45:17 Turned up too 2 hours there can only be 1 and it's my phone. That's fine. It's connected to it. I know I'm going to leave this off Massey, OK? I'm going to say from a pace of play standpoint, this is a pass. Yes. 1:45:33 If we would have been on it, not letting group, not letting a single or double through, not stopping and getting tacos, not playing a match, we probably could have played this round in 3 1/2 hours. If we really, if we wanted to, we could have been heads down, hammered out, right? 1:45:54 But we didn't. But on the same point of it, we didn't have to. Yeah, no one was on our ass. We didn't feel like we had to play in four or three and a half. Well, we let guys through, but that was because they were singles. 1:46:10 So it's a pass for me, but I know that you're the decider on us. That's why I want to lead off. Jeff Yeah, dude. We could we could have easily in like 3 1/2. Hours. Why are you laughing? Sorry, give them a. 1:46:30 Moonshine No, it I I love TJI think you're saying that we're going to finish this in 3 1/2 hours if everybody was off the T box. Oh my God. I. Quit the podcast. 1:46:49 I'm kidding. I'm kidding. This is a pass for sure. So I'm kidding just because like the nonchalantness of it, the you could play like DJ said, you could play it fast or you could play it at your pace. 1:47:10 It doesn't matter. The Marshall, do they have them? Marshall, Marshall. So it may be different tomorrow or on the weekends. Yeah, but. Asterisk, we did play in the afternoon on a Monday, like 100% like there's there's no doubt about it that like we could have been in a very unique situation today, but I can't imagine that it's that wildly different to play on the weekends in Borrego. 1:47:39 I'm safe to say the time to play is a Monday between 11:00 and. In June. In June. Yeah, I'm a pass as well. So that means this course is already 6 for seven and it's up for debate. Should it pass? No other question from here on out. 1:47:55 So question beat the high handicap protest. Here we go. Let me take the full mic here as the man who is a + 20, not plus 20 the other side of it. Plus 20, no. 1:48:12 Plus 20. I don't know if Scotty's a + 20 it's. This course is hard, this course is really hard. This course is only for the big boy. It is just a big boy. Not a lot of trees, not a lot of trees out there on the. 1:48:27 Not a lot of trees. Not a lot of trees, not a lot of safe haven, not a lot of praise to spray it out. You know, no. One's going to valet your balls to the green. It's got to go get it. You got to be a big boy, you got to play with it and you got to do it on your. 1:48:44 Own you got to have to go get it, and if you're not getting it, you're going to get fucked. Even if you got 31,000 views of the hole, I feel like you'd still need a few more just to get 30. Two, to get you to the hole. It's and that's why we're bringing in the blue flame. 1:48:59 And if anything ain't on you. I'm going to be honest, whatever you guys say, this should still fail because of how terrible of a time I had today. Well, you're the tiebreaker. So I'm I'm a fan. And I fail this right now too, so it's a fail officially, but I'd love to hear for posterity reasons what you guys think. 1:49:18 I. Think. Wait a minute, Kevin, real quick, I would like you failed it because it's hard. Because. Because of how? I just shot today I. Want to know why he failed? It because I watched my high handicapper friend failed hold on hold. 1:49:34 On hold, on, hold, on, hold on hold. Massey, give me a little space here real quick. Hold on before I before you do that, Why? OK, greens at 11 are already tough for a high handicapper. 100% add, add, add to that undulation, right? 1:49:55 And now you're talking about, oh, I might be poking out of the desert somewhere below. I got hills coming into the screen and it's rolling at 11. That's tough for someone that's above the hole. We talked about it. Don't be above the hole today. And that was a tough scene. So even though he was off the tee not great today, that doesn't mean necessarily that had he put it in the fairway that he would have had an easy time either. 1:50:16 Because you don't put this in the right spot on the green, you're not a guaranteed 2 putt anywhere. Of course, a Henry Capper is if he's got an eagle. Putt, well, he said he's a + 20, so he's pretty good, but minus, he's a minus. Oh my God -24. 1:50:36 Think, think about this today, right? Every time I was in a bunker today. He got out in one. Shot. I got out in one. And the yeah, the other thing. Many times did I get out in one and still 3 putt. Yeah, and. Not and not even having practice putting. 1:50:55 Pretty often. Also, here's the other thing I'll say How often? How often? How often does the wind blow in Brego Springs? My guess is pretty often. Every. Fucking day and the wind was not easy. The wind was not easy today. Think about how. Many times I hit what was a very acceptable shot out of the bunker and everyone said oh good out and I was still left with what was a questionable 2 putt today. 1:51:20 Yeah. Yeah. You're going to. Put that on the on the fucking guy who's a single digit. The guy that the guy that pushed us to 18. I was going to. Say, how many birdies did you have today? 1:51:36 But you also had one. You had a birdie. You and I had an equal amount of birdies today. That's true. Kevin had two, my partner had two. That's. The one you guys the match. I had one birdie. All right. Posterity reasons. 1:51:56 Honestly. Don't worry about affecting me. Before I answer, do you think if we weren't drinking today you could have shot back? Can I have follow up? Can I follow this real quick, do you think? Yeah, if we weren't drinking and you would have stopped hitting driver so soon, it would have changed the outcome. 1:52:15 Of your game if we weren't drinking, stop taking. Driver took a couple lessons. If we weren't drinking, it's tough because I don't. Every time I feel like I took a 5 iron off the tee today, it still didn't feel great. 1:52:34 So here's The thing is that every time I thought oh, I'll hit a safe 5 iron off the tee, I would eventually think about walking out to the tee and hitting A5 iron. And I said, Oh no, if I hit a 5 iron off the tee, I'm going to have a four iron in. I hope. 1:52:55 I hope the mic pick that up. OK, the mic, pick that up. You got to keep going here. We're almost at a 2 hour park here, so I know, I know. We're failing this one. That's officially this. Is a tough call. OK So 6 for eight question 9, the vibes test. 1:53:13 Is this course worth staying at post round? Do they have a good restaurant or patios? Are you the tiebreaker or am I? I'm the tiebreaker for the next the last two this. Should be unanimous. I'm a unanimous. Spawn today, yeah. Everyone wants to say it on three 123 fail. 1:53:32 Yeah. He said best. You said pass, they shut. The restaurant. Oh, wait, we're talking. We're talking about the course, not the OK. I love Jessica in town. That Carmelitas, Yeah. 1:53:47 Shout out to Jessica Carmelitas. We got to the golf course and we were trying to make dinner reservations and they're like, we close at 2:30. We're all like fuck. We just scramble there. What we're going to do for dinner. Yeah, I. Thought we were going to be OK having. Dinner here, the same thing that makes us a pass on the Marshall makes it a fail on vibes. 1:54:03 There was no everybody here. It was dead. Yeah. So we are 6 for 9, though it is still up for debate. If it wants to be a true pass, it's got to pass this question 10, the dime a dozen test. 1:54:19 Is this course unique to the area or could you get this golf experience somewhere else on your trip or visit? You. It is 100% my baddie. This is you're the tiebreaker on this, right? Is it? Is it us up? Yeah, you guys all go. 1:54:34 So yes, because there's nothing like this anywhere. Within hundreds of miles. Proximity. Yes, you drive 5 hours. This. Is technically San Diego County, Yeah. So I would say. Yeah, it is. 1:54:51 It is. You pass this time entering San Diego County as you come into Brego Springs. No shit. Yeah. So you're a pass. Yeah, it's super unique for San Diego County. You're a pass. I think for San Diego County, this is we, I just talked about it where it was like this isn't unique to Arizona and Phoenician golf, but like for San Diego, this is 100%. 1:55:16 There's nowhere else that you play, but it's like. I agree. And we talked about how it's like PGA West and PGA West from here is a drive like it's still over an hour to get to Palm Springs from here. So this area like this is it, this is all you got. 1:55:32 So it's the definition of unique to the area. I will say I like, I didn't realize. I always thought for some reason it was farther, but knowing that it's just like 35 or 40 minutes from Julian and I live down South, it's not that bad of a trick. Yeah. 1:55:47 It's weird because I live north county and you live almost at the border and it's almost the same exact time for you and me to get out all the way out to here. Like it's weird because. You just take the 8 out. And then from O time, yeah, 125 to 8, yeah. OK, so it's officially a 7 out of 10, which means it is a must play, must play. 1:56:09 Sticker The sticker goes up in the garage. Yes. So Rams, we're here another day. There might be a sticker if you're willing to accept it out on the pro shop, but also. We're going to put it up in the garage. It's going to go up next to all the other brands that we've seen out. If you come out on the House on the hill and you hit in the SIM in the garage, you're going to see a must play. 1:56:28 Stick around. We're about to go live and then start charging my phone. Before you leave though, thank you guys for joining us your second time back, Kev. It was an absolute pleasure. Anything besides us going live later tonight that we have to look forward to. I know you have a tournament coming up. Oh. LA City tournament. 1:56:45 If I don't win, I'm deleting my page. 18,000 followers gone erase This is like. Yeah. LA City Tournament, Yeah, that is what I have on the schedule for now. 1:57:01 Unless I somehow get to A4 handicap before July, then I can play in the San Diego City Tournament, but that's their Max. You have to get to a four to play in San Diego. Look, if you're listening to this podcast and you don't follow surreal golf, this man drops in nugs. 1:57:17 He doesn't. He doesn't turn out a ton of content, but on a good on a good cadence that you drop nothing but nugs. Everything this man puts out is great content. Like everything he puts out, I'm like. I mean, people copy him. I'm like, man, I wish, I wish I could sit on this type of content and say, oh, like whenever I feel like I have a good idea, I'm like, put that out before somebody else takes out of you, man sits on it, Masters on it and you make sure that it's perfect. 1:57:45 So go follow Surreal Golf if you're not following Surreal golf. Anything else? Anything else that's. What I'm back to? OK, ref, what do you got coming up speak. I just want to say guys, it is a no. 1:58:07 I'm just going to keep doing my thing. Nothing really big planned coming up. Maybe some collapses for real with the fair wagers. Got some stuff coming up with Link, so that's going to be pretty cool. Other than that, just going to keep rocking out, pumping some content, playing some golf. 1:58:23 Nothing really on the radar, just going to vibe out. I like that before I have TJ play us out, I just want to say I want to do more in person pods. This was a absolute blast and for all of those who stuck around with us, I actually would love to do more in person podcasts with some of our listeners. 1:58:42 So maybe there's a future where we do something like this, but TJ, please. Yeah, if you are happening to listen on YouTube or you're watching on YouTube, you know, hit us with three, hit us with a like, hit us with a subscribe. 1:58:58 Slam that bell for a notification. If you're on Spotify, Apple Music, make sure you subscribe. Make sure that you rate the podcast. Hit us with five stars. You think this was a podcast with a four-star? Also tell us that. Either way, we still love it. 1:59:14 But if you are also a person who wants to see us do more, live in person. You happen to be in Phoenix or in San Diego, let us know. Drop a comment, let us know. We encourage you come out to Rams Hill, evaluate the course of your own. Our rating is not the end all be all. 1:59:31 Let us know. Let us know if you think it's a what we rated as 7 out of 10. It's a must play. There's going to be a sticker here on the House in the Hill. Come on, I'm the sticker. Take a picture, let us know. Come out, rate US, tell them what it is. 1:59:47 Assy. Well, oh, you want me to first of all, this will be coming out in June and I just want to say that TJ and I, you guys haven't heard this yet, are going to be officially starting to release a pod almost every week here because we've been going bi weekly up until this point. 2:00:10 So we're going to start hitting you guys with a level selective bonus round and a must play every month. At least. Three at least. Three months, so we might have you guys on again here soon. We have a couple fun ideas set up for bonus round. But thank you everyone for joining Must play and I can't wait to do one of these again. 2:00:29 But everyone who's sucking around with us, if you're listening to this at night, have a good night. Thank you, Kev. Thank you Rev and we'll see you guys soon. So you're on must play. On the live stream. All right, moving the camera. © 2025 Spotify AB Legal Privacy Cookies